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ArsenicSteel wrote:

Well I can hear a voice(any language) and get some understanding, context, and emotion out of it. So muting the sound would lose that.

People exaggerate somethings in (dubs/subs) and some even downplay the problems in dubs/subs. The "dissing" the Japanese audience has about the Japanese track is the same kind of "dissing" the English audience has with the English track; some voices don't match, some acting is questionable, etc.
People that import different region DVDs are in a completely different strata from the norm and should not by used as representations.

Now for your odd take on Kai. Kai is not about translation but the absurd amount of filler DBZ had and the creators wanting to celebrate its anniversary with a remastered/edited version. This was done to be more along with the original manga, domestically.

I'm talking about understanding the show not understanding the emotions. I didn't say it's enjoyable, but the fact remains you will understand almost as much without the audio in the subs as opposed to the english dub which you will understand more with it then without it. That is the point I was trying to make. The enlgish dub is more useful, yet people dis on it and complain when one is made.

That basic understanding you spoke of can only go so far and it's limited to very few basic things. So, in no way it is going to help you understand the whole show just by now know/understanding a few words of the language.

Also, I wasn't talking about Kai being shorter or different. I'm talking about the dub. It's going to be more "Faithful" (than the previous one) to the Japanese, which means there is going to be a crappy soundtrack and more of the cheesy lines from the sub in the dub. THAT is what I was talking about.

Ranma824 wrote:

Yeah, No.

Only two of the six shows are fanservice/harem type shows; not five of the six. (maybe three of six, since C;H comes from a game. But it has other elements then just pretty girls)

I'm afraid I'm not following your math here.

Rosario and Rosario 2 are both obviously harem fanservice shows. If Sora no Otoshimono isn't an echii comedy...well I have no idea what it is. C;H may contain other elements but it clearly has a very heavy harem set up. Admittedly, Regios doesn't look to be as heavilly harem based but it's clearly still got an underlying harem set up. Rideback is the exception. So...that's 5/6 of the new shows.

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And GunxSword.

That's a pretty minor consolation though. If I wanted GunXSword I'd have bought it when Geneon put it out ages ago.

Rinkwolf wrote:

ArsenicSteel wrote:

Well I can hear a voice(any language) and get some understanding, context, and emotion out of it. So muting the sound would lose that.

People exaggerate somethings in (dubs/subs) and some even downplay the problems in dubs/subs. The "dissing" the Japanese audience has about the Japanese track is the same kind of "dissing" the English audience has with the English track; some voices don't match, some acting is questionable, etc.
People that import different region DVDs are in a completely different strata from the norm and should not by used as representations.

Now for your odd take on Kai. Kai is not about translation but the absurd amount of filler DBZ had and the creators wanting to celebrate its anniversary with a remastered/edited version. This was done to be more along with the original manga, domestically.

I'm talking about understanding the show not understanding the emotions. I didn't say it's enjoyable, but the fact remains you will understand almost as much without the audio in the subs as opposed to the english dub which you will understand more with it then without it. That is the point I was trying to make. The enlgish dub is more useful, yet people dis on it and complain when one is made.

That basic understanding you spoke of can only go so far and it's limited to very few basic things. So, in no way it is going to help you understand the whole show just by now know/understanding a few words of the language.

Also, I wasn't talking about Kai being shorter or different. I'm talking about the dub. It's going to be more "Faithful" (than the previous one) to the Japanese, which means there is going to be a crappy soundtrack and more of the cheesy lines from the sub in the dub. THAT is what I was talking about.

The more faithful part means it will be more faithful to the manga story. Cheesy lines are the fault of the sub? Writers make cheesy lines and dubs re-writes have tons as well.

The understanding I am talking about is the meaning of the emotions and context of the scene I hear from the voices. It is there and this is what the dubbers base their performances loosely on. The vocal performance is there and it is not just "noise" as you claimed. It is not unfathomable to prefer the original work as opposed to a derivative of it, regardless of language barriers.

Ingraman wrote:

I didn't like either. I saw a few episodes (4-5, IIRC), didn't like the fanservice, and it had no plot at that point beyond challenge-of-the-week or harem expansion. Since many people said that the manga was so much better, I glanced at the first few volumes of it as they were released, and found that I didn't like its fanservice or plot (slightly better than the anime, but still bad).

Of course it had no real plot because it's a harem, how may harems are there that are so incredibly amazing? Next to none. Harem is just supposed to be cheap entertainment, the only reason I watch them is because I watch other kinds, particularly action and suspense anime in bulks, therefore at some point I'd wanna watch something just for laughs and that's what harems are made for, a few laughs. Next to none go beyond cheap entertainment like Ranma 1/2, Urusei Yatsura and Tenchi Universe, that's about it I can list at the top of my head.

Rinkwolf wrote:

That basic understanding you spoke of can only go so far and it's limited to very few basic things. So, in no way it is going to help you understand the whole show just by now know/understanding a few words of the language.

I disagree. You seem to be ignoring the existence of subtitles; by reading the translation and hearing the lines spoken, we get clued into both "what is happening" and the emotions behind each of the lines. Essentially it's exactly the same as listening to it in a language we are fluent in. A person watching with subtitles can understand the show just as well as a person watching with dubbed dialog. Since you get the same result either way, there's no reason to act like one is totally superior to the other.

darksharingan wrote:

Ingraman wrote:

I didn't like either. I saw a few episodes (4-5, IIRC), didn't like the fanservice, and it had no plot at that point beyond challenge-of-the-week or harem expansion.[...]

Of course it had no real plot because it's a harem, how may harems are there that are so incredibly amazing?

I wasn't expecting a great plot, but I was hoping for something that might offset the bad fanservice and then-non-existent plot. I should also have mentioned that I didn't like the characters or the character designs. I don't remember the cast, so I don't know if there were any seiyuu that I liked (if 'yes', they weren't enough to save it).

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Harem is just supposed to be cheap entertainment, the only reason I watch them is because I watch other kinds, particularly action and suspense anime in bulks, therefore at some point I'd wanna watch something just for laughs and that's what harems are made for, a few laughs.

Almost all anime is 'cheap entertainment'. Hmm... What have I watched 'for laughs' lately? What was the last harem show that I watched? I might have seen one or two lately, but I haven't been sorting anime by genre, and no titles are coming immediately to mind.

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Next to none go beyond cheap entertainment like Ranma 1/2, Urusei Yatsura and Tenchi Universe, that's about it I can list at the top of my head.

I remember buying those Tenchi Muyo! Ryo-Ohki LDs from Pioneer LDCA! ^_^ I never did buy/watch any of Tenchi Universe. I got sick of Ranma after the first couple of dozen episodes, and I haven't seen more than a few episodes of UY.

As a reminder, this is not a sub vs. dub debate, so those of you that are trying to turn it in to one can knock it off. If a dub is made and you don't like it then watch the sub, no one makes you watch the dub. Plus, just saying "those dubs suck" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion, which only incites further reactions and can be seen as trolling, which adds another offense to the attempts to steer the thread off course.

So, allow me to simplify matters. This is not a sub versus dub debate. Initially it was somewhat relevant, but now it's just spiraled out of control so I'm putting a stop to it. Discuss the news topic or take the battle elsewhere.

Ingraman wrote:

Almost all anime is 'cheap entertainment'

Almost all of anything is cheap, look at todays music, almost everyone in the mainstream is a pathetic excuse for a singer, and the people who do like their so-called hits are only big for a short time and then you spit it out like last night's pork chops. Hardly anyone plays 50 Cent's or Snoop Punk Dogg's earlier garbage songs regularly just to make room for new stuff which will also be discarded almost as soon as they're released.

Look at movies, everything Hollywood produces is a stupid comic book movie, or based on a book, or even just a CG-fest, making the term 'popcorn' movie a derogatory one.

But all I can say with anime is that they're always something great that's memorable in the fanbase such as Death Note, Monster, Gundam Seed and 00, shows with real stories. Anything outsode anime has been mostly nothing but trash and so few can be named that can please its fans, like Rambo. How it pleased action fans, or rather, MALE action fans, the key audience that action movies are supposed to target anyway.

With anime, at least they don't always try be what they're not, if it's cheap anime, there's no point in trying to give it elements of other genres just to make it look like what it isn't or the audience would be very disappointed. Some have come around that were mixing unmixable genre like Full Metal Panic, comedy and war...really cheap if you ask me.

ikillchicken wrote:

I'm afraid I'm not following your math here.

I was counting both seasons of Rosario as "1", since it's the same franchise. Otoshimono is totally fanservice/echii; and C;H is from a Nitro+ game - so that makes three.

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That's a pretty minor consolation though. If I wanted GunXSword I'd have bought it when Geneon put it out ages ago.

By the time I wanted to purchase GxS (from recommendations/rental), it was very hard trying to track down several particular volumes. So I'm happy I'll have the chance to pick it up this time.

Last edited by jr240483 on Tue May 18, 2010 10:38 am; edited 3 times in total

Baby Naruto wrote:

So they finally licensed Rosario + Vampire? Cool Smile

.

I look forward to watching the anime series for the first time via FUNimation's English Dub.

no kidding and i can easily predict who will voice who and it's probably gonna be mostly the main VA from Negima.

Luci = Inner Moka

Negi's VA = Tsukine

Monica = Yukari

Steaphnie Seph = Outer Moka

Collen = Rubi or Mizore

Kurumu's voice =same VA who played as Ayaka

and i have a nasty feeling that Sabat would either be the bus driver or the Headmaster.

Alongs that's he's no hyperactive narrator like in Negima?! I am ok with it.

Dark Absol wrote:

I'm getting a little interest in Rideback. I think I'll give it a go when it's released on DVD.

Even though I'm happy that they licensed some decent anime. I have one question...Will they ever going to license the rest of Shakugan no Shana and The Familiar of Zero?! Anime hyper

I am wonder the same thing as well.

Same with Nanoha Strikers as well as the 1st movie and the series OVA spinoff , Triangle Hearts ~ Sweet Songs Forever ~

Hopefully they'll come to the US too , Alongs as neither Sentai nor MB didn't get them cause they would have gotten the sub only treatment which i definately dont want.

However you also have to count the manga for Nanoha as well as Zero no Tsukaima (Familiar of Zero). when in the world will they ever come to the US?

Keonyn wrote:

As a reminder, this is not a sub vs. dub debate

There's a sub/dub debate at AnimeVice in the forum for Nonsense from the Noob: Dub or Sub

Excluding clips of them, I haven't seen Rosario or Gun. I don't know about Gun but might decide to read the Rosario manga first. Though one thing that's interesting is that Rosario's Moka and Rideback's Rin both are voiced by Nana Mizuki. She is potentially most famed for the only Naruto character I hate more than Sasuke, Hinata. I'm glad Viz didn't get Rosario's anime license because the dub could've ended up having Stephanie "dubbed Hinata" Sheh as Moka. Though I'd say is good as Hinata and great as Bleach's Orihime (who I would totally date versus totally killing Hinata).

Ranma824 wrote:

ikillchicken wrote:

I'm afraid I'm not following your math here.

I was counting both seasons of Rosario as "1", since it's the same franchise. Otoshimono is totally fanservice/echii; and C;H is from a Nitro+ game - so that makes three.

Yeah, I'd give you 4/5 if you want to look at it that way (I still count CSR). Still pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

darksharingan wrote:

Look at movies, everything Hollywood produces is a stupid comic book movie, or based on a book, or even just a CG-fest, making the term 'popcorn' movie a derogatory one.

But all I can say with anime is that they're always something great that's memorable in the fanbase such as Death Note, Monster, Gundam Seed and 00, shows with real stories.

I'm pretty sure Deathnote and Monster were based on comic books too genius. In fact, anime is probably a higher percentage of adaptations these days than even Hollywood. I'll also take a lot of popcorn movies over a lot of borderline softcore porn. Of course, it's pretty pointless to argue over the garbage. Obviously 90% of both is crap. If you're stereotyping all of Hollywood based on the crap then you're just being willfully ignorant of the gems.

ikillchicken wrote:

I'm pretty sure Deathnote and Monster were based on comic books too genius. In fact, anime is probably a higher percentage of adaptations these days than even Hollywood. I'll also take a lot of popcorn movies over a lot of borderline softcore porn. Of course, it's pretty pointless to argue over the garbage. Obviously 90% of both is crap. If you're stereotyping all of Hollywood based on the crap then you're just being willfully ignorant of the gems.

There's a big difference between making a live-action movie and an animated series you fool. With animation you can simply present the comic in moving picture form, with movies you have to blend it in with the real world which is very difficult and has to be done right, which is usually always done wrong, look at the BS movie Bayformers. Comics and Animation are a different realm and the only thing that can mix with it best is video games. Which is why making live-action films based on comics all the time is stupid because converting them to real-life is a ripoff and almost all the time. How many live-action movies based on comics were actually good? very few like Nolan's Batman, Blade Batman 89 and Men In Black (2nd was crap).

With cartoons there are no borderlines or rules to try and make something believable. On top of that, you can watch them on tv for free, at least if you don't like an anime you didn't have to pay for it from the start.

Moreover, there's also a lot of anime that are original and not based on manga or games, A LOT like Gundam series, Darker Than Black, Speed Grapher, Evangelion, Noir, Madlax, Mai-HiME, Last Exile, Cowboy Bebop, Eureka Seven, Noein, Ergp Proxy...shall I keep going?

You really are too dimwitted to have not to think it's the same thing, cartoons and live-action are completely different realms, and let's not forget, anime-adaptations is pretty much a tradition, in fact manga are generally made with the intention of having anime adaptations, why do you think manga companies are merged or subbranches of video game or animation companies?

And finally...Death Note is 2 words genius.

darksharingan wrote:

How many live-action movies based on comics were actually good?

Dozens of em? 300, Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, From Hell, Hellboy, Hellboy 2, Ghost World, A History of Violence, The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man, Iron Man 2, The Mask, Men in Black, Mystery Men, Road To Perdition, Sin City, Spider Man, Spider Man 2, V for Vendetta. Watchmen, X-Men, X-Men 2 just to name a few.

I think if you actually look at a list, it's pretty close to 50/50 for the modern stuff. That's pretty high.

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With cartoons there are no borderlines or rules to try and make something believable. On top of that, you can watch them on tv for free, at least if you don't like an anime you didn't have to pay for it from the start.

Well, no. You pay for TV and even then it's really only available in great quantities in Japan. Besides, by this reasoning staring at a blank wall is superior to all other forms of entertainment.

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Moreover, there's also a lot of anime that are original and not based on manga or games, A LOT like Gundam series, Darker Than Black, Speed Grapher, Evangelion, Noir, Madlax, Mai-HiME, Last Exile, Cowboy Bebop, Eureka Seven, Noein, Ergp Proxy...shall I keep going?

Uh...no because I never denied this. There are plenty of original anime works. (Although the majority do seem to come from manga or games). My point though is that despite your claims, only a small percentage of Hollywood movies are based on comics. So really, the whole question of 'can Hollywood adapt comics well' is pretty minor. If you really have such a problem with live action comic adaptations there are still a million other things to watch.

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You really are too dimwitted to have not to think it's the same thing, cartoons and live-action are completely different realms, and let's not forget, anime-adaptations is pretty much a tradition, in fact manga are generally made with the intention of having anime adaptations, why do you think manga companies are merged or subbranches of video game or animation companies?

No part of this is a coherent sentence so you'll understand if I'm less than bothered by your name calling.

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