Forum

There's one good reason why I don't like SOPA and PIPA: it puts the US government in direct control of what you can put on the Internet. As such, it's only a very small step to the kind of Internet censorship now practiced in China.

As such, since SOPA and PIPA violates the Free Speech clause of the First Amendment to the US Constitution, both laws would be quickly struck down by the courts anyway.

Melanchthon wrote:

Kikaioh wrote:

...in which case, the defendant isn't necessarily entitled to US rights...

I don't know how law is in Antarctica, but in the US, rights are unalienable. This means even non-citizens have the same rights as non-citizens. Citizens may have special privileges, but due process is a right for all.

Here, read some Ars Technica and edumicate yourself.

Although the rights enumerated in the bill of rights are considered inalienable, my understanding is that full constitutional due process isn't necessarily a naturally guaranteed right to citizens outside of U.S. jurisdiction.

1st Amendment free speech is considered an inalienable right, but the wording of the right itself doesn't mention due process for rights-infringing cases: only court precedent has suggested that due process is required before the removal of alleged infringing materials from circulation.

It's true that due process is a right mentioned in both the 5th and 14th Amendments, but they only bar the government's power to deny legal rights within its own jurisdiction. You'll note in the 14th Amendment Due Process clause: "Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." My understanding is that 'any person' is traditionally interpreted as any person on U.S. soil. As the final statement reads, all other protections of the laws are explicitly protected only for those persons within the jurisdiction of the State itself.

Also, my understanding is that the Constitution is open to interpretation in regards to rights as they apply to foreigners, as such rights aren't always explicitly stated. Orwellian though it may sound, everyone may be afforded due process of law, but not everyone is necessarily afforded the same process. The Constitution was drafted for U.S. citizens, and there are a number of rulings (esp. in military cases) where the protection of U.S. interests may be held above the rights of foreigners.

As far as I've read, full constitutional due process traditionally applies only on U.S. territory to citizens, legal residents and visitors. Depending on International Law, the right to due process may actually be limited in cases where Congress allows for it (as SOPA seems set to do). If you research, I think you'll find the right to due process as it relates to foreigners outside U.S. jurisdiction isn't necessarily cut and dry, nor is it always the same as ordinary citizens.

The article you linked to didn't clarify the point; actually, it seems to only confirm what I wrote in my first post. Again, I don't purport to be a lawyer, but if you have an understanding of international due process law that better clarifies SOPA's alleged unconstitutionality, please let me know.

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

For goodness sake, just eiliminate it and pretend you never create it (except mention it in history textbook).

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:

The key here is "anti-piracy".

Copyright needs the repair, not the fight against piracy.

Pull the root and there's no reason to fight dandelions.

Every fight is a fight. Weed everything out from the public and transparent the world of the internet.

The piracy bill is too dangerous; too board and too poorly written, and it doesn't repair system than destroys the foundation. The Congress loves China so much they had to copy China Governing System itself just for these two bills. Hilarious... But it's not funny when it's coming from US soils.

Hollywood and Music Industry keeps forcing the people to buy their DVD/CD... And refuse to change with the rest of the world into the digital age. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave since Apple iPod was created and came out...

Mesonoxian Eve wrote:

The key here is "anti-piracy".

Copyright needs the repair, not the fight against piracy.

Pull the root and there's no reason to fight dandelions.

except how do you repair copyright and make it so you can't prevent certain things from being made (Big Budget movies, video games, shows that are not on tv).

For example if you make it so that you can just download anything from some website, what's to stop people from downloading it from some catch all website that leaves the creator with nothing. You basically have Anonymous flat out stating that they would rather the guy who runs Megaupload make money than to pay for anything.

Right now we just have people who are only interested in making sure they get what they want (the Entertainment heads want to make sure they get their billions of dollars, the guys who pirate only care about getting things for free, and the tech people don't care if the plan is profitable for everyone as long as their idea of a free internet are met).

bradc wrote:

Hollywood and Music Industry keeps forcing the people to buy their DVD/CD... And refuse to change with the rest of the world into the digital age. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave since Apple iPod was created and came out...

You do know that you need money to make movies right? I mean Dark Knight Rises is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make, Warner Brothers charges you money so they can make the money back (and god for bid profit from it so they can make more movies).

SOPA and PIPA explained
Best explanation of how SOPA and PIPA really would work. Will ANN get in trouble for me putting up a link?? Shocked

Charred Knight wrote:

bradc wrote:

Hollywood and Music Industry keeps forcing the people to buy their DVD/CD... And refuse to change with the rest of the world into the digital age. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave since Apple iPod was created and came out...

You do know that you need money to make movies right? I mean Dark Knight Rises is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make, Warner Brothers charges you money so they can make the money back (and god for bid profit from it so they can make more movies).

The money for any form marketing and product goods...etc has to come from somewhere: supplier, manufactures and distributors, which goes to retailers to consumers who buy said product in order for company to gain profit. If consumers are no longer supporting said product, the business must find a way in order to regain their lost profit.

Or the business be put out of business since it's no longer meeting supply and demand. Meaning, whatever the consumers are seeking, the business is either not providing services and goods, the foundation base are the consumers will put them out of business and find another that meet those criteria.

Downloading and streaming are just other options for consumers. By shutting down the whole internet of this fiasco is appalling; since such websites like e-Bay and Amazon exist, they will force them to close down as well. It's a no win situation by shooting yourself in the foot.

Kikaioh wrote:

... That said, the due process issue still seems questionable, and I'd like legal clarification as to the reasoning behind its absence before passing judgement on the legislation. ...

Bear in mind that the author's of the bill, the MPAA and RIAA, already abuse the current system. So the simplest explanation for an opening for abuse in the language is that they wish to be able to use that opening to engage in abuse.

bradc wrote:

Charred Knight wrote:

bradc wrote:

Hollywood and Music Industry keeps forcing the people to buy their DVD/CD... And refuse to change with the rest of the world into the digital age. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave since Apple iPod was created and came out...

You do know that you need money to make movies right? I mean Dark Knight Rises is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make, Warner Brothers charges you money so they can make the money back (and god for bid profit from it so they can make more movies).

The money for any form marketing and product goods...etc has to come from somewhere: supplier, manufactures and distributors, which goes to retailers to consumers who buy said product in order for company to gain profit. If consumers are no longer supporting said product, the business must find a way in order to regain their lost profit.

Or the business be put out of business since it's no longer meeting supply and demand. Meaning, whatever the consumers are seeking, the business is either not providing services and goods, the foundation base are the consumers will put them out of business and find another that meet those criteria.

Downloading and streaming are just other options for consumers. By shutting down the whole internet of this fiasco is appalling; since such websites like e-Bay and Amazon exist, they will force them to close down as well. It's a no win situation by shooting yourself in the foot.

There is other options between "Let the major companies control the internet" and "force everyone to give their products away for free".

If you are downloading anime without giving back to the creators you are not a consumer. I work at a copy store, if a person comes in and tells me to make 100 copies for them, then refuses to pay (not create a tab simply refuse to pay at all) I am not just going to give them the copies, I am going to call the cops.

You are basically asking people to pull product out of thin air like magic, and then saying that they're not meeting the demand for free movies. Why should anyone make something from you when you expect people to just hand you things.

Last edited by bradc on Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

Charred Knight wrote:

bradc wrote:

Charred Knight wrote:

bradc wrote:

Hollywood and Music Industry keeps forcing the people to buy their DVD/CD... And refuse to change with the rest of the world into the digital age. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave since Apple iPod was created and came out...

You do know that you need money to make movies right? I mean Dark Knight Rises is going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make, Warner Brothers charges you money so they can make the money back (and god for bid profit from it so they can make more movies).

The money for any form marketing and product goods...etc has to come from somewhere: supplier, manufactures and distributors, which goes to retailers to consumers who buy said product in order for company to gain profit. If consumers are no longer supporting said product, the business must find a way in order to regain their lost profit.

Or the business be put out of business since it's no longer meeting supply and demand. Meaning, whatever the consumers are seeking, the business is either not providing services and goods, the foundation base are the consumers will put them out of business and find another that meet those criteria.

Downloading and streaming are just other options for consumers. By shutting down the whole internet of this fiasco is appalling; since such websites like e-Bay and Amazon exist, they will force them to close down as well. It's a no win situation by shooting yourself in the foot.

There is other options between "Let the major companies control the internet" and "force everyone to give their products away for free".

If you are downloading anime without giving back to the creators you are not a consumer. I work at a copy store, if a person comes in and tells me to make 100 copies for them, then refuses to pay (not create a tab simply refuse to pay at all) I am not just going to give them the copies, I am going to call the cops.

You are basically asking people to pull product out of thin air like magic, and then saying that they're not meeting the demand for free movies. Why should anyone make something from you when you expect people to just hand you things.

The downloading sites are providing a "service" this is also part of the marketing to consumers (fans). Consumers buy these said product, which becomes ownership of the buyer who bought from them. This product is mine to keep and share among my friends if wish to do so.

However, this is the digital age, even long before the digital age of video tapes once existed. People have been ripping them and sharing them.... Twenty years ago of today haven't changed much at all.

bradc wrote:

The downloading sites are providing a "service" this is also part of the marketing to fans and consumers. Consumers buy these said product, which becomes ownership of the buyer who bought from them. This product is mine to keep and share among my friends if wish to do so.

You're demanding that people work for you for free. Then you get pissed when they don't make stuff for you.

agila61 wrote:

Kikaioh wrote:

... That said, the due process issue still seems questionable, and I'd like legal clarification as to the reasoning behind its absence before passing judgement on the legislation. ...

Bear in mind that the author's of the bill, the MPAA and RIAA, already abuse the current system. So the simplest explanation for an opening for abuse in the language is that they wish to be able to use that opening to engage in abuse.

The federal government already abuses it powers in shutting down U.S. websites, with little recourse or explanation.

Charred Knight wrote:

bradc wrote:

The downloading sites are providing a "service" this is also part of the marketing to fans and consumers. Consumers buy these said product, which becomes ownership of the buyer who bought from them. This product is mine to keep and share among my friends if wish to do so.

Your complete lack of grasp of the economy is astounding.

People wonder why entertainment is in the state it's in when they refuse to support it.

Because everything is based on entertainment itself.

Charred Knight wrote:

bradc wrote:

The downloading sites are providing a "service" this is also part of the marketing to fans and consumers. Consumers buy these said product, which becomes ownership of the buyer who bought from them. This product is mine to keep and share among my friends if wish to do so.

You're demanding that people work for you for free. Then you get pissed when they don't make stuff for you.

Nothing is free. Go find a job, and earn money from those who waving this bill above your head. Where one is suppose to support Hollywood with their re-package goods and buy them at Best Buys.

bradc wrote:

Nothing is free. Go find a job, and earn money from those who waving this bill above your head. Where one is suppose to support Hollywood with their re-package goods and buy them at Best Buys.

uh are you completing my post?

You're the one demanding that hollywood stop charging you to watch their movies.

Forum - View topic
NEWS: U.S. Congress Puts SOPA/PIPA Copyright Bills on Hold

Spy×Family Anime Gets 3rd Season

'The 100 Girlfriends Who Really, Really, Really, Really, Really Love You' Season 2 Unveils More Cast, January 2025 Debut

That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime Season 3 Anime Reveals More Cast, New Theme Songs, New Promo Video

Anime Studio Gainax Files for Bankruptcy

The Anime Backlog - Hellsing Ultimate

Synduality: Noir Season 2 Anime Series Review

This Week in Games - Dragon Gangster Drivers And Rusty Riding Rabbits

Like Magneto, Scar In Fullmetal Alchemist Was Right

Your Anime Rankings - Best of Spring 2024, May 27-Jun 2

This Week in Anime - Why Was Code Geass Such a Big Deal?

Kengan Ashura Season 1 Part 2 Anime Series Review

Forum - View topicNEWS: U.S. Congress Puts SOPA/PIPA Copyright Bills on Hold

Forum

Forum - View topic
NEWS: U.S. Congress Puts SOPA/PIPA Copyright Bills on Hold