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Echo_City
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
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 Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:42 pm
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I was disappointed by the visuals in Garden of Words. There were some pretty good shots but there were some real stinkers in there that brought down the production. The first was early on in the film when the protagonist walks along the wooden bridge and rounds the corner. As the camera follows his movement the animation becomes jerky and similar to a flipbook, reminiscent of the old anime series where they would not have 24 unique FPS (ie:frame reuse) when they'd pan around a CG object. The second was when there's a shot of the park and the camera pans to look down on the park and the cg looks corny; it turns the scene into a pop-up book.
I did like the somewhat obvious message of how a royally screwed up (read:"whore") mother destroys families and is shown as the cause of the protagonist's demure deportment, retreat from reality and shoe obsession. I didn't like how virtually every character shown was a wuss. I had to fire up some shows with real men and women (and action/plot) to get my system back in check. 
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Panon
Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 242
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:15 am
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| Echo_City wrote: | | I did like the somewhat obvious message of how a royally screwed up (read:"whore") mother destroys families and is shown as the cause of the protagonist's demure deportment, retreat from reality and shoe obsession. |
I... what?
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Echo_City
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:19 am
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| Panon wrote: |
| Echo_City wrote: | | I did like the somewhat obvious message of how a royally screwed up (read:"whore") mother destroys families and is shown as the cause of the protagonist's demure deportment, retreat from reality and shoe obsession. |
I... what? |
The movie shows that the protagonist's mother is a woman of no emotional maturity who uses her youthful looks to pick up younger men, living a hedonistic lifestyle and leaving her children to fend for themselves (the father is out of the picture). The children, the 2 brothers, adapt to this: the older brother becomes somewhat apathetic and detached while the younger brother becomes despondent and detached takes it upon himself to fill the role of mother, including being the "mother" to his own mother. It's not a stretch to see that this "anti-normal" situation has led to his strong desire to escape his circumstances, his self-imposed isolation/denial-of-reality and his meekness.
At one point in the movie the protagonist is sitting in the park with his surrogate mother-figure and he drifts off into a flashback of a time when his family was all united and was happy. It involved the 3 males of the family gifting a pair of shoes to the mother, much to her obvious delight. Shinkai shows us that the protagonist gravitates towards shoes as they're his subconscious link to normalcy and familial bliss.
Point of movie: Broken mother leads->broken family->broken child. Broken child then finds a surrogate mother figure and begins to rebuild himself. The surrogate mother figure is also broken, allowing them to mutually bond and "help each other", creating what could almost be called an Oedipus complex for the protagonist as he has a surrogate mother and a quasi-girlfriend and they're both one and the same.
Freud would be proud lol.
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iamthevastuniverse
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:57 am
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| SahgoDN wrote: | | I enjoyed Garden of Words as well, though some parts felt unnecessary (scenes with the main character's brother, especially). I couldn't shake the feeling that it could've been 10 minutes shorter and nothing of value would be lost, and it bugged me a little. Of course, I would have to ignore the fact that the visuals are amazing and fantastic. As I said to a friend of mine, I think this movie is "style over substance, but it's just SO MUCH style".
I have mixed feelings about Sentai's dub for this movie. Performances were solid overall (well, except for one bizarrely old-sounding high school girl), but script and direction seemed very hit-or-miss. Yukino's crying scene in the end particularly was pretty sloppily handled and actually made me chuckle a little. Definetly not one of their best dubs. |
That "one bizarrely old-sounding high school girl" that you're talking about is Allison Sumrall and personally I like her voice. I have to strongly disagree about the dub I found it be one of Sentai and Foster's strongest dubs this year. Patrick Poole(who plays Takao) was remarkable especially in the last emotional scene of the film. I found that Josh Grelle fit the role in Mysterious Girlfriend X to a tee I have no complaints with his performance.
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jojothepunisher
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 799
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:05 am
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The graphic for the rain in Garden of Words was so good that it almost seemed like it was CG the first time that I saw it.
In terms of the content, the latter half just became kind of overdone, especially with the scene where Takao explained his feeling for Yukino in an over dramatic fashion and Yukino's response to it.
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zensunni
Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 1294
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:06 am
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I'm happy to hear that the voice actress chosen to voice Urabe in the English dub fits the role. That was a concern, given that the original was one of the finest performances I have heard in recent years. I find it interesting that Ms. Simmons is also a relative newcomer to voice acting, given that, for Ayako Yoshitani, it was her first anime work. I will eventually pick up both MGX and Garden of Words... ah... cash flow... If only I didn't have to be concerned with it...
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Reibooi
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 394
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:40 am
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For me the only Shinkai thing I truly liked was Voices of a Distant Star. I have to a extent liked most of what he has done but Voices was the only one I really liked. With that in mind I went into Garden of words with lowered expectations and was very pleased. It for me anyway is pretty close to how much I liked Voices.
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here-and-faraway
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1528
Location: Sunny California
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:42 am
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Thanks for the link to the Shinkai interview. It was interesting!
I thought Garden of Words was a well-made film and DID enjoy it, but as a teacher I have to admit it also made me VERY uncomfortable. From the start, Yukino knows Takao is a student - one from her own school no less. She even assumes that he knows who she is (a teacher with the reputation for "seducing" a young boy). Despite this fact, she continues their relationship. When Takao finally ends up in her apartment, I was practically screaming, "Noooo!" at the screen. Of course, I'm not saying this film is bad, nor that people should avoid it because its "immoral". Who Yukino and Takao were simply made it harder for me to cheer the two on. But having a couple separated because of time is very Shinkai, is it not? ^_~
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:23 am
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Is an oxymoron, just like many of Shinkei's films. and at 46 minutes, it either a short movie, or a long one episode OVA. One thing's for sure with his works, it all boils down to "Life sucks, is too short, and there's no happiness." It's now clear to me that the man has to be a clinical manic depressive. 
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dragonrider_cody
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:39 am
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| Mohawk52 wrote: |
Is an oxymoron, just like many of Shinkei's films. and at 46 minutes, it either a short movie, or a long one episode OVA. One thing's for sure with his works, it all boils down to "Life sucks, is too short, and there's no happiness." It's now clear to me that the man has to be a clinical manic depressive. |
First of all, the term "manic depressive" hasn't been used for well over a decade. Secondly, if all of Shinkai's works are as depressing as you say they are, then there are no upbeat works to indicate a "manic phase", so you usage of the term wouldn't apply regardless.
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:48 am
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| dragonrider_cody wrote: | |
First of all, the term "manic depressive" hasn't been used for well over a decade. Secondly, if all of Shinkai's works are as depressing as you say they are, then there are no upbeat works to indicate a "manic phase", so you usage of the term wouldn't apply regardless. |
Wait for it. 
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here-and-faraway
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1528
Location: Sunny California
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:48 am
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| Mohawk52 wrote: |
Is an oxymoron, just like many of Shinkei's films. and at 46 minutes, it either a short movie, or a long one episode OVA. One thing's for sure with his works, it all boils down to "Life sucks, is too short, and there's no happiness." It's now clear to me that the man has to be a clinical manic depressive. |
Feel free to disagree with me, but I think a lot of Shinkai's films center around the idea that being separated from the one you love and still feeling a connection to them is beautiful. This is a very Japanese sentiment when it comes to romance and can be frustrating to some western viewers. There are tons of shows like No. 6, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Toradora!, Tsubasa Chronicles, Ayashi no Ceres, etc. where the characters find true love, but can never be together.
In Garden of Words, it's clearly implied that Yukino and Takao will keep their bond, despite the differences between their time and space. The tanka poem about remaining after the thunder, pretty much sums them up.
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here-and-faraway
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1528
Location: Sunny California
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:53 am
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| Mohawk52 wrote: |
| dragonrider_cody wrote: | |
First of all, the term "manic depressive" hasn't been used for well over a decade. Secondly, if all of Shinkai's works are as depressing as you say they are, then there are no upbeat works to indicate a "manic phase", so you usage of the term wouldn't apply regardless. |
Wait for it. |
Oh my! Did I just feed a troll?
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:55 am
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| here-and-faraway wrote: |
| Mohawk52 wrote: |
Is an oxymoron, just like many of Shinkei's films. and at 46 minutes, it either a short movie, or a long one episode OVA. One thing's for sure with his works, it all boils down to "Life sucks, is too short, and there's no happiness." It's now clear to me that the man has to be a clinical manic depressive. |
Feel free to disagree with me, but I think a lot of Shinkai's films center around the idea that being separated from the one you love and still feeling a connection to them is beautiful. This is a very Japanese sentiment when it comes to romance and can be frustrating to some western viewers. There are tons of shows like No. 6, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Toradora!, Tsubasa Chronicles, Ayashi no Ceres, etc. where the characters find true love, but can never be together.
In Garden of Words, it's clearly implied that Yukino and Takao will keep their bond, despite the differences between their time and space. The tanka poem about remaining after the thunder, pretty much sums them up. |
Bamboo made the analogy of "like eating pizza, but just change the toppings" when describing episodes of "Dirty Pair-TV". Well for me Shinkei's films thus far fit that same analogy to a tee. Your mileage may vary, and that's fine.
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bravetailor
Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 817
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:00 pm
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Directors who are preoccupied with certain key themes throughout their career tend to develop these themes or explore different perspectives and thought processes regarding these themes. Look at Ozu or Hitchcock. They tended to make films covering similar ground as their previous works thematically, but there's enough depth to explore that you can watch dozens of their films and still don't feel like they're repeating themselves. With Shinkai, however, I don't see much thematic development other than changes of setting. It's the same thing over and over, no new insights on the same story, which is getting a bit tired now.
I respect the fact that he broke new ground being a one-man staff back in the day when he was making a name for himself, but I'm not sure I consider him to be as great an artist as some fans try to prop him up as. He showed us what you can do by yourself with modern tools at our disposal, and that's his claim to fame, imo.
| zensunni wrote: | | I'm happy to hear that the voice actress chosen to voice Urabe in the English dub fits the role. That was a concern, given that the original was one of the finest performances I have heard in recent years. I find it interesting that Ms. Simmons is also a relative newcomer to voice acting, given that, for Ayako Yoshitani, it was her first anime work. I will eventually pick up both MGX and Garden of Words... ah... cash flow... If only I didn't have to be concerned with it... |
Genevieve Simmons' twitter account is interesting. The majority of her tweets are about entrepreneurship, business, and finance, which is apparently her "true" career focus. It seems that voice acting is something she does on the side. Early returns seem to be that she's still pretty good at it all the same, though.
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