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Silver Kirin
Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 1128
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 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:03 am
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There are a few things to comment on this week's results. First of all, I think this is the first time since its launch that the PS5 managed to outsell the Switch, even if they were only 232 more units. I guess Nintendo is saving some units for Pokémon S/V launch.
Ignoring Splatoon 3, the combined SKUs for Star Ocean 6 came in second place with 44,178 copies sold, but from what I've heard those numbers are the lowest the franchise has ever had. Bayonetta's numbers are above those of Astral chain but aren't as high as those of the first game, though according to some sources the game is doing well digitally. I'm kind of surprised the new CoD is below Bayonetta and SO6, considering that CoD usually sells well in Japan. It seems that, aside from Nintendo games and some popular franchises, Japan gaming habits have changed a lot and sales for certain games have declined.
Just this week Square-Enix said in an interview that the Japanese market is no longer sufficient enough to recoup development investment and generate a profit so they're prioritizing the global market. SEGA also recently mentioned that more than half of Persona 5 sales came outside from Japan, while also mentioning that Soul Hackers 2 didn't meet their sales expectations.
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Philville
Joined: 20 Aug 2022
Posts: 158
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:49 am
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| Silver Kirin wrote: | |
Just this week Square-Enix said in an interview that the Japanese market is no longer sufficient enough to recoup development investment and generate a profit so they're prioritizing the global market. SEGA also recently mentioned that more than half of Persona 5 sales came outside from Japan, while also mentioning that Soul Hackers 2 didn't meet their sales expectations. |
I heard the Square-Enix news too, and if that's true then it arguably represents a watershed moment for the industry (I wonder how they're going to reconcile that with the fact that they've basically shut down their Western division). I am genuinely surprised to hear that more than half of the P5 sales came from outside of Japan; it makes sense given the size of the global market, but it's still a staggering amount. The good news is that titles such as this which are arguably tailor-made for a domestic audience do sell well abroad, so hopefully there won't have to be too much compromise in terms of content to adapt to the "global" market (although, to be fair, Persona is a well-established series, and there are many games that won't benefit from the same level of marketing). In theory this is all good news for Western gamers, but I don't know what it means for the domestic market and for Japanese developers and publishers at this stage.
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Silver Kirin
Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 1128
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 12:38 pm
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| Philville wrote: | | In theory this is all good news for Western gamers, but I don't know what it means for the domestic market and for Japanese developers and publishers at this stage. |
It feels like the Japanese market has changed dramatically in the last 10 years, during the PS2, PS3 and Wii era a console RPG could sell well above 100k units but these days those numbers are limited to some big franchises, while games from companies like Falcom are struggling. There's been a change in console preference, the PS2 and PS3 sold incredibly well there, but the same cannot be said about PS4 and PS5, I think the Switch has sold over 20 million units while the PS4 only sold 9 million. And there's the fact that various developers, some due to loyalty, feel obligued to develop games for the PS instead of the Switch despite the latter having a bigger instalbase, I'm not talking about AAA titles, I remember that a CyberConnect 2 developer conducted a poll asking people where would they like to play the then recently announced Kimetsu no Yaiba game and the overwhelming majority said the Switch, but still the game came later to the Swtich half a year later. I think a developer once described the Japanese console market as everyone vs Nintendo, and considering that some Nintendo games like Animal Crossing and Splatoon broke sales records, they are losing, though some developers like Capcom and Konami managed to develop games that sold over a million copies on Switch in Japan.
Games like Final Fantasy XVI seem to try imitate Western titles like The Witcher, then there's some rumors that Dragon Quest XII may drop the turn-based mechanics of past games to appeal to Western gamers. Don't know if SEGA will try to make Persona 6 a multiplatform title, only time will tell
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Dark Mac
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 317
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:38 pm
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| Silver Kirin wrote: |
| Philville wrote: | | In theory this is all good news for Western gamers, but I don't know what it means for the domestic market and for Japanese developers and publishers at this stage. |
It feels like the Japanese market has changed dramatically in the last 10 years, during the PS2, PS3 and Wii era a console RPG could sell well above 100k units but these days those numbers are limited to some big franchises, while games from companies like Falcom are struggling. |
The Trails series sold over 2 million games in the past year, and almost all of that was outside of Japan. Falcom's doing better than ever.
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Philville
Joined: 20 Aug 2022
Posts: 158
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:48 pm
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| Silver Kirin wrote: | |
Games like Final Fantasy XVI seem to try imitate Western titles like The Witcher, then there's some rumors that Dragon Quest XII may drop the turn-based mechanics of past games to appeal to Western gamers. Don't know if SEGA will try to make Persona 6 a multiplatform title, only time will tell |
I sure hope not. I can see how abandoning random encounters was an important quality-of-life change for the Dragon Quest series that made the games more accessible to Western audiences, but if they abandon the turn-based mechanics then that really dilutes the overall experience and fundamentally changes the nature of the game. I know some people are turned off by turn-based combat but I doubt that's the main reason people didn't play DQ11 (which sold remarkably well, anyway). Catering to Western tastes isn't a bad think per se, but I shudder to think of some potential nightmare scenarios, like Sega deciding to make the Yakuza titles resemble GTA (which in the past used to be a very common but totally unfounded comparison).
To use your other example, I love The Witcher but don't see how it has anything in common with Final Fantasy (which I've loved since FFIV), so trying to market one as the other (or to have one imitate the other) seems disingenuous and deplorable to me. It's great when Japanese and Western developers are in conversation with, and draw inspiration from each other but it's sad to see established franchises trying to conform to "global" tastes (although I obviously understand the economic imperative behind this). That's one of the reasons I have so much respect for auteurs like Hideo Kojima who stick to their own vision (though to be fair, that's a rather unique and controversial situation which doesn't really reflect how most studios in the industry work).
On the other hand, making games multiplatform doesn't sound like a terrible idea, especially if developers and publishers in Japan are struggling to compete with Nintendo, as you say.
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Guile
Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 595
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:30 pm
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| Philville wrote: | | I heard the Square-Enix news too, and if that's true then it arguably represents a watershed moment for the industry (I wonder how they're going to reconcile that with the fact that they've basically shut down their Western division). |
Those don't have to be related. People like Square-Enix for their Japanese games, not their western division games. They can choose to focus on Japanese tastes and still do well in the western market. Persona 5's overseas success proves westerners love Japanese focused games. I'd like to think companies have learned by now that pandering to the west didn't work out well as a number of them tried doing that around 2008-2015 to middling success, but I suppose they could always fall back into that old habit.
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Philville
Joined: 20 Aug 2022
Posts: 158
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:43 pm
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| Guile wrote: | |
Those don't have to be related. People like Square-Enix for their Japanese games, not their western division games. They can choose to focus on Japanese tastes and still do well in the western market. |
That's true of course. If anything, the success of Elden Ring this year is a case in point, which is why its popularity has baffled so many Western game developers/executives (though I would argue that has less to do with it being recognizably "Japanese" than with FromSoft's refusal to adhere to Western open-world game design and philosophy and instead sticking to its guns).
| Guile wrote: | | Persona 5's overseas success proves westerners love Japanese focused games. I'd like to think companies have learned by now that pandering to the west didn't work out well as a number of them tried doing that around 2008-2015 to middling success, but I suppose they could always fall back into that old habit. |
And that is of course very reassuring. If all of this holds true, though, then why are there rumors about Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest abandoning traditional features to resemble Western games? Hopefully they remain just that -- rumors and unfounded fears.
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Silver Kirin
Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 1128
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:20 pm
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| Philville wrote: | | On the other hand, making games multiplatform doesn't sound like a terrible idea, especially if developers and publishers in Japan are struggling to compete with Nintendo, as you say. |
Games being multiplatform, including PC, would be great. Though there's always the chance that some publishers acquire exclusivity rights for certain games, PlayStation obviously wants Final Fantasy XVI to be a flagship PS title, then there's some developers than seem to have some platform preferences (e.g. Atlus, Falcom, CC2, Namco, SEGA)
Nintendo is in a weird spot in that despite the Switch's success, its hardware is already quite old and it is difficult to port more current games. We'll have to see if the Switch's successor is at least as powerful as a PS4 Pro so that developers can port or develop more complex games for it. I can't imagine Enix going to the trouble of making two versions of the same game like they did with DQXI. I imagine Enix wants DQXII to be a generational leap for the franchise, but considering the PS5 low sales making a Switch version could be possible for the Japanese market, unlike Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest never tried to push graphics, instead the games release in the most popular console, that's why DQIX was released on the DS.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5996
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:16 pm
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| Philville wrote: | | Catering to Western tastes isn't a bad think per se, but I shudder to think of some potential nightmare scenarios, like Sega deciding to make the Yakuza titles resemble GTA |
If this means we get larger expansive maps (not set in Kamurocho) where it takes at least an hour or more to head from point A to point B. Playable female & female enemies. And better writing not marred by asspulls and plotholes. That actually helps the series not hurts it.
| Silver Kirin wrote: | | I imagine Enix wants DQXII to be a generational leap for the franchise, but considering the PS5 low sales making a Switch version could be possible for the Japanese market, unlike Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest never tried to push graphics, instead the games release in the most popular console, that's why DQIX was released on the DS. |
What was the reason for Nintendo instead of SQE publishing it in the west?
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