Forum - View topicNEWS: Tokyo Godfathers DVD details
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dmanjdb
Posts: 113 |
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I'm not discriminating because of languages I'm discriminating because of format. I like japanase but I won't go thought a 2 hour or so movie reading subs. I not my style. So i won't buy it. That doesn't mean that I won't see it. It just that won't care to buy. Now thats out of my mind I hope they Dub Streamboy. If it comes out. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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There's nothing wrong with this opinion, people should stop bashing you for it (but they were on the money regarding your English, unless it isn't your first language). A lot of people don't like to read subtitles, and honestly it is rather surprising that they decided to release this movie sub only. Maybe for them, it wasn't worth going through the trouble of creating a sub because the time and energy spent creating a sub for this "foreign film" could also be spent creating a dub for one of their own movies, which will sell thousands of times as many copies. Unfortunately when businesses and people are busy, they need to budget their resources in a way that put the "biggest profit" over the "smaller profit", it's not just a matetr of saying "will this make us money?" with an yes answer being a green light. Personally it won't bother me at all, I'm perfectly happy to watch any foreign film subtitled, and with the exception of very good dubs, I prefer to watch them subtitled (fortunately the Anime industry is now putting out very good dubs compared to many other sectors of the entertainment industry). But many people are less keen on subtitles, and its a shame that they won't get to enjoy this film. -t |
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JETBLACK87
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I try not to be a dub basher...maybe sometimes I do. I don't care if people get there dubs as long as I get my subs. BUT I don't think people should relay on there dubs. A lot of relly good movies come out sub only. And if people say "I won't watch that cause I don't like subs" than I look down on them.
Look at all the great movies that are probably sub only |
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eva05
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It's extraordinarily hard to dub.
First you have to try and adopt the mannerisms of speech and subtleties of the humor to whichever language you are porting over to. Then you have to have actors match their speech to existing lip movements and not act naturally. This is extraordinarily difficult to do well, and the reason IMHO, so many dubs fall far below the bar of qaulity set by works in their native language. (I recently saw a Japanese dub of Dini's Batman stuff...pretty terrifying) The main reason these are not being dubbed I suspect is the target market for the movies. A lot of anime in dubbed because the target market skews younger (between ages 10-18 I think). These markets tradionally like high action, young male characters/heroes, cute girls, and don't have the patience to read subtitles. (I'm not saying this is the case with all anime fans in this age range, but I've seen lots of marketing data to support this and this is often how business is done.) These younger markets are less likely to jump at classic anime like Gundam, Memories, Steam Boy, Millenium Actress, etc. because of story or animation style. These titles generally appeal to an older audience because their: Characters aren't young (Millenium Actress) Animation isn't as slick as contemporary stuff (original Gundam movies) There's very little action or the style isn't like tradional anime (Memories/SteamBoy) This is how marketing looks at titles when they are preparing them for a wide release. I know, I work at an animation company and we sometimes get physical check lists from networks when pitching shows. These check lists itemize elements that are needed when targeting certain markets. Older anime fans, who are more likely to pick up a title like Milennium Actress or Tokyo Godfathers, generally got into anime before there were dubs or even subs readily available so they consider the inclusion fo dub low to zero priority. Some, such as my zealous coleagues here, think dubs cheapen the work (and sometimes I would agree with that). As a producer/mfg, marketing data like that is taken into account and the $ needed to make the dub can be spent elsewhere in the budget, such as mastering, packaging, commentary or advertisements supporting the release...These are things that are generally very important to the older consumer. So quite frankly it comes down to where the money is and who's spending it. j Last edited by eva05 on Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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I wasn't bashing, I was just more curious as to his reasons why. I agree that it's weird to release a sub only release since dubs are far more preferred than subs. I enjoy watching dubs, I like to understand what they're saying. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15346 |
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dman:
It's 92 minutes. Tempest:
The people who don't like to read subs probably also don't like to see Kon's movies anyway. eva:
Actually, they show the lead as she grows from child to adult. It's a female empowerment movie that should've been a hit with shoujo fans, but failed, because I guess shoujo fans prefer stuff which isn't as empowering. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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This is interesting, I can't see what would bring you to this conclusion. Cinephiles tend to accept and prefer subtitles, but I see no reason why a dubbed Satoshi Kon movie wouldn't appeal to a fairly broad audience. I just don't see anything in his movies that suggests they should be limited to cinephiles. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Female empowerment certainly is a mainstay of Shoujou, but there are many aspects to shoujou. I don't think there are enough similarities between M.A and a typical shoujou for it to have some special appeal for shoujou fans. -t |
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GATSU
Posts: 15346 |
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Tempest:
Because unlike Perfect Blue, Millennium Actress and Tokyo Godfathers don't have psychotic killers or attempted rape. All three movies got a limited release in mostly the same number of theaters, but only Perfect Blue made the most money. Whether that's indicative of fandom or just bad marketing remains to be seen.
I don't either, but the box office speaks otherwise.
But there's only one aspect which seems to be popular right now. And it comes off as vapid and shallow. I may have said this before, but I make it my policy to avoid titles which highlight girls with short skirts on the covers. |
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eva05
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Well the style isn't shoujou at all. MA actually garnered a lot more popularity outside of Japan than inside... Nor is the design of the lead character particularly "sexy" as most female leads in anime. (I love the original Dirty Pair as much as anyone...meow! :p) j |
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Lost_Toys
Posts: 50 |
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One of the main issues with dubs is cost. For one, you have to get a team of writers to make a dub script. Like someone else said previously, this is a daunting task since you have to match dialgue to a preset time while still keeping the meaning and nuances the same. Subs can contain much more information than dubs for this reason. There goes some money.
Next you will need to hire the actors and technitians for the dub. Then the studio time. Then the dialague editors. All of these will cost you money. The average dub costs around One million to Two million dollars for a large budget film. Sony has recently been pushings subs over dubs gradually over the past couple of years. The United States is one of the only countries who still dubs films. Most dubbed films, now, are ones that contain a lot of action. The reason being is that the action is a selling point [like any Jet Li or Jackie Chan film] and the distributers dont want the audience to miss out on all the choreography. However, Sony set a rather great precedent for not dubbing an "action movie" with the wide release of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Perfect Blue was handled by Manga, and Manga has always done dubs to their films so they can reach a wider audience. Millenium Actress and Tokyo Godfathers had a much more limited release and were targeted at a much finer crowd. These crowds are purists, and don't want dubs [most releases of Metropolis, also handled by Columbia, were released subtitled]. I personaly hate dubs, since you lose too much in the translation [nuance and meaning]. I am glad that the US is finally adapting a subtitling model for foreign films. Especially with such great releases as City of God and Goodbye, Lenin making it stateside subtitled. Last edited by Lost_Toys on Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor
 Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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You hate dubs? C'mon. The "purist" thing is crap, too. Unless it's a completely literal (read: stilted) translation, you're also "losing" stuff in the subtitles. Dubs aren't inherently worse, they're just different, and they let a show reach a wider audience. There's space--and a market--for both.
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eva05
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OK, he made a few relatively subjective statements and stated his opinion at the end. Saying his argument is crap without backing it up is pretty childish. As an editor I would hope you would set a better example for others...
See I agree with this, but dubbing in general is a very tricky art, especially when you are trying to match the mouth movements from a alien language whose structure, slang and mannerisms are radically different from those you are translating to. Also, most US anime importers/distros tend to use non-union actors to save $. Does this make the acting any worse by default? Of course not, but it is a clear indication that cost is a serious priority for smaller shops when doing these pieces. Other than the Transformers Movie I can't think of a single anime film/series that had any "big name" actors attached to it. I also happen to think the Transformers movie is surprisingly well dubbed as was the Batman animated film "Mask of the Phantasm". I happen to think these are the two best examples of English-spoken voice acting in an animated feature film. (Yes I know both of these were done for the English language, I'm just talking about US voice acting in general now  )
j |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Armitage III: Polymatrix, Princess Mononoke, and I think Spirited Away would be three. |
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor
Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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See the one sentence you managed not to quote. |
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