Forum - View topicStigma of an anime fan.
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Andy26
Posts: 41 |
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There are areas of popular culture that carry within their sphere of influence certain stereotypes. Generally these constructs are negative in nature and used by others who exist outside the scene to denigrate something which they don't understand. Such is the nature of stereotypes, a byproduct of overgeneralization and preconceived misconceptions. It is not lost on me that Anime is an easy target for such mechanics.
The genre itself may have created its own baked in self aware state of being apart of a countercultural scene. By definition the term otaku, while more recently has become a generic and even endearing term, had started life as a very negative definition describing someone who did not fit in with the rest of society at large. While the genre as a whole has clearly taken a foothold in the mainstream and has become a much more accepted part of culture there are still some eyebrows that get raised when you mention your fandom rather it be a casual interest or a full on obsession. In my current living situation (a maximum security prison complex in Midwestern United States) there is a stark divide between anime fans and those who just don't get it and I wonder how the scene is out there in the free world. Please keep in mind that I had become an Anime fan during my incarceration which began in 2006 and had no knowledge of the culture before then. Therefore I have little to base my expectations on for my release (in 314 days now!). Here is an example of dealing with such an anti Anime bias I experienced a couple of years ago: I live in an honor unit and this unit in particular is allowed to decorate the cell block every year for Christmas. A friend of mine had created this amazing scene on his cell door with a Goku-esque Santa character accusing a little boy of being on the naughty list while a kawaii elf girl watched on. There was nothing sexual about the imagery in any fashion. The girl was drawn fully clothed and her proportions were not exaggerated in any way. A very innocent scene that my friend had spent several days constructing, Santa being over six feet tall! An officer seen this display on the wall and immediately took offense to it. Clearly he had a predisposed bias towards Anime and had made the determination that this scene was one tentacle shy of a full on Hentai orgy. He went and got a caseworker to come look at the display and instructed her to order the scenes destruction. In her defense I could see her exasperation at having to play the role of Gestapo but in the end the determination was made, the girl had to come down. I had the opportunity to ask her directly why that decision was made and she replied that "The girl appeared to be underage". To which I immediately pointed out the entire cast of "Peanuts" who were displayed on the bottom walk. Lucy, Sally, Peppermint Patty, all of which appear to be grade schoolers but were not viewed in the same light as the elf. Of course my observation was received poorly and I was offered a vacation in the hole if I wanted to continue asking questions, a vacation I declined to accept. That was just one of many experiences with a hostile bias towards the genre I love so much and it makes me ask today if it is just as bad out there. What have been some of your experiences dealing with other peoples attitudes as it relates to your fandom? Would you say the attitudes or opinions have gotten better or worse? I understand that geography, population density, and other environmental factors do play a role in the overall tone so I am asking what it is like out there in general. I haven't made up my mind entirely as to where I will live when I get out but right now it seems like Columbia Missouri may be my landing spot, a larger college town sure to have a more accepting scene than a rural farming community deeper in the bible belt. Do you find yourself defending your passion more than sharing it with others? |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23784 |
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I own a T-shirt that has printed on it, "It's an anime thing. You wouldn't understand." But actually that sentiment isn't as true today as it once was. I'm 58, so there's still a lot of people of my generation who think of anime - if they think if it at all - as "those crazy Japanese cartoonies" but younger folk certainly don't feel that way. My anime fandom actually gives me a rare touchstone with people who aren't old farts like me. My best friend's son, who is in his mid-20s, often discusses current anime shows with me (however, he let me down badly by not liking the anime adaptation of Dorohedoro - an unforgivable sin that I will nurture as a bitter grudge until the end of time).
By the same token, when I meet people more in my age bracket, I tend to wait until I know them better before admitting that I'm an anime addict. |
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HoneyAlice
Posts: 23 |
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I have to admit, there are certain stereotypes about anime fans, but the attitude is very liberal. As long as it doesn't harm anyone, then you can be into whatever you want.
In general, I've observed that sometimes you can tell by appearance and communication that a person is into anime, and sometimes you can't tell until a person says so. So, anime fans are not oppressed, don't worry! Good luck in all your endeavors! 
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HoneyAlice
Posts: 23 |
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And by the way, so sad that drawing was destroyed, from your description it was very beautiful
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9846 Location: Virginia |
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I'm twenty years older than Blood- but my experience is similar. When I first got into anime back in 1997 most of my contemporaries had no idea what I was talking about. The only people I could talk to about it were the clerks in the comic shops where I bought it. People my age mostly still know nothing about it but the younger generation, those is the twenties now, are familiar with anime and don't have any negative opinions. My wife's great nephew is heavily into it and borrows manga and anime from me. I don't think there is any stigma, but you may have problems finding people your own age to share with.
The experience you relate, I suspect, has more to do with prison staff being, "not nice people" than is does about anime. |
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InfiniteJest
 Posts: 136 |
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In the last 20 years there is an increasing trend toward geek culture in all its forms. Gaming, Anime, Comics etc., are all becoming more mainstream. There will always be some types who look down on anyone who has a specialized interest that isn't sports...and we shouldn't kid ourselves...plenty of Otakus talk to non anime fans like they are bugs as well. But its getting better over time. Studio Ghibli works are watched by all kinds of people. We're seeing more and more dubs. Over time the "nerd" image may not go away, but it will certainly be less stigmatized.
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Andy26
Posts: 41 |
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It is nice to hear all the comments on this topic. I find so many different questions to ask and the anticipation of experiencing these sorts of things within society is heavy indeed. Everyone's experiences here, while differing some, still seem to hold a common thread a community of like minded people do exist and those are the people I need to be seeking out anyway.
@HoneyAlice you raise some good points and I forget that I will be interacting with people who are not all wearing identical outfits. The social cues you have out there like printed t-shirts, dyed hair, etc just don't exist in here, so I'm sure that will help in identifying other fans as well. @Blood- and @Alan45 I felt like I might have been a little out of place in here at 46 years old, turns out I'm just a pup. Hearing your ages made me realize that while I may have thrown away 20 years of my life I likely have several good ones to go ahead of me. I may even have enough time left on this plane to watch all of One Piece when I get out! |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9846 Location: Virginia |
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My wife's nephew only watches One Piece at the gym. He is 1000+ episodes in and credits the show with his getting into shape. Says he lost 50 pounds that way.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23784 |
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Man, Andy26, I cannot wait until you are no longer restricted to watching whatever anime happens to be on Toonami. I just wonder... will your mind be able to handle the flood???
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Hiroki not Takuya
 Posts: 2518 |
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On the last point...  One Piece is forever, it will never end. All you can do is enjoy it wherever you start if it is enjoyable (I'm not a fan, but that's me). And to your first observation, you have no idea how large and varied the anime community is these days but one trend I see is that fans tend to be quite accepting of differences across ethnic, cultural and international lines and outside of some bad actors, most feel a sense of community and can come together in thier appreciation of the medium and each other.
I mean, who knew some of the largest anime cons are held in Mexico and South America (or so attendance figures say)? Now, to your question of stigma, I'll give my view of the evolution of that which started in 1962 at age 4 watching AstroBoy, Gigantor and Kimba. No one among my friends who were watching Bugs Bunny, etc could relate and I couldn't talk to them about it. 6-7 years later I had to explain to who would listen about my avid interest that "Japanese animation" was nothing like "cartoons" ala Scooby Doo, etc. but they didn't get it and it made me weird in their view. No problems though, I have never been a social person. Time-skip to 1986-89 as there seemed to be no anime anywhere from the late '60s TV until VHS tape rental places popped up with a good selection of anime. However I was surprised at that point that the prevailing view was anime was straight-up hard-core PORN   if anyone even knew what anime was. I had to convince my wife that I wasn't a pervert but after seeing the likes of Project-Ako she understood as she was a general animation fan like I was.
I/we had to be very selective of who I/we could mention our fandom to for risk of that stigma. The problem I believe was between Saturday Cartoons and Disney, characters who were closer to anatomically correct (or sometimes exaggerated) seemed similar to being naked to the general public and there could be only one reason for doing that to a "cartoon". Fritz the Cat the X-rated American animated film was still on people's minds and it didn't help that some anime depicted naked people at times due to the Japanese sensibilities on such. So much for cross-cultural learning In the US I believe the "tipping point" was Adult Swim showing such as Cowboy Bebop and a generation of teen-to-20-somethings who did not share the "porn" stigma and grew to appreciate what they saw and started to form fan groups who could talk about the amazing shows among their friends. Cons started to form and acceptance grew as exposure to the multi-dimensional, emotionally deep and dramatic stories not found in Disney or elsewhere drew more people in. But even now, there is still a good part of the population in the US who aren't "into" anime and probably never will be, though some are discovering it because of online discussion becoming more prevalent. A good percentage instead prefer Adventure Time, Rick and Morty, etc. but they seem less inclined to negative reactions as in the past because they have to admit to liking those "cartoons" which are decidedly not Disney either. So, find yourself a con, be respectful, avoid "creep" behavior and welcome to the vast world of anime and fandom!! |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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Funny thing is a friend of ours uses her workout bike at home and that's when she watches One Piece. She's like 500 episodes in. That's also in just 6-7 months. |
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sharkticon
Posts: 30 |
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Weebs and geeks won the culture war on a scale no other group has since the boomers. But, rather than bask in their victory, they complain endlessly about it.
Sometimes I wonder if it is because media we like becoming popular means that people have to look at their own defects for why they may not be liked. Like, there isn't really a stigma to being a comics or anime can anymore. There is for being a weird asshole. |
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Andy26
Posts: 41 |
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@Hiroki not Takuya
I find it interesting to hear people's stories of how they came to find Anime and the journey it has taken them on. Similarly to @Alan45 you have been there since the beginning and your collective knowledge's could fill an encyclopedia for sure. It had to be impressive to witness the larger scale validation of your passion as it moved from a niche pastime to a widely accepted media. You mentioned watching Astro Boy and I had heard that this series was the West's introduction to Anime and I am curious to know how that actually became available. Was it something that was broadcast on network television? Do you know if it was nationally broadcast or only available in select, larger markets? It is thanks to people like you who have been there supporting the industry since the beginning that has allowed this medium to grow into what it is today and I tip my hat to you. I am unable to be a proper parent to my daughter as I have spent her entire 16+ years in here but I do call her at least weekly and have always been able to talk Anime with her. To hear it is getting stronger and less stigmatized with every generation is inspiring. I get out of here in May and would really like the opportunity to see the stories such as your collected and preserved somewhere. I think it would be really neat to be able to catalogue these and if someone doesn't beat me to the punch would appreciate the opportunity to learn more from you then. |
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Hiroki not Takuya
Posts: 2518 |
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Dear Andy26,
AstroBoy was broadcast on NBC (I recommend looking up the Wikipedia article for the details) and came from Osamu Tezuka's Mushi Production with the man himself in charge. The same occurred for Kimba and one of the localizers for those got rights to TetsuJin-28 rebranded as Gigantor in 1966. I was in Detroit at the time so I don't know if it was nationwide but I'd guess much of the country had those available. Another fun bit of history well worth your time looking into is the story of Little Norse Prince aka Hols Prince of the Sun, televised on network TV Thanksgiving 1968 and 1970 as filler, which I saw and hit me emotionally like nothing else. It was the first collaboration of Miyazaki and Takahata who later founded Studio Ghibli and historians credit it as being the first modern anime. Mike Toole also has a great article on it as well, check out his articles here! And now I have told you most of what I can say until we get to more recent anime, but it has almost literally exploded starting about 1998 and those who caught onto it then are really to thank for supporting the flowering. Anime in the '60's sort of came and went without much general notice in the US so I doubt old timers like me really had much to do with the later development except to provide moral support maybe and buying VHS tapes and DVD when they came out (I got the whole Eureka 7 series first thing!). I never thought of the popular rise of anime as validation, just happy that there were (finally!) bunches of people that loved the medium as much as I always had and now I can converse with them. But I am sure there are those like Alan45 around ANN who can fill you in much more than I. |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9846 Location: Virginia |
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@Hiroki not Takuya & Andy26
Just noted your comments. Sorry, but I do not go back to the beginning of Anime in the US. I first got into anime in 1997. While that was admittedly a while back it is not the beginning. I remember feeling like a complete newbie back then as the older people on the forums discussed the past. The late 90s were an interesting time in anime. It was completely possible to buy all the anime and manga legally available in the US each month. That is if you could find it for sale. Very few people had any idea what it was. |
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