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Kadmos1
Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13558
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:42 am
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Joe Mello wrote: | Aside from the standard "contracts and rights can be weird sometimes," I think we're dealing with the two facts that anime has never been bigger and anime in the US has never been more monopolized. Yes, there are multiple streaming options for anime, but the ones that the market associate with anime are Crunchyroll and HIDIVE and they are not on the same level as each other. So Japanese companies with perhaps an overinflated view of their product (for once) ask for too much and Sony counters with offering too little, and the gap is too big to reconcile. |
Well, they also have Hulu, Disney+, and Netflix for the American audiences in terms of the official big platforms. However, you are correct market association with CR and HIDIVE.
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BigOnAnime
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 1230
Location: Minnesota, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:47 am
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nutmegknight wrote: | (Mermaid Melody didn’t get picked up for an English dub airing because they couldn’t get a merch deal I believe). |
It wasn't due to a merch deal, it was a TV deal which was never going to happen.
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=5433563#5433563
Really hoping Discotek Media can get it and give it the release it deserves after like 20+ years.
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Lord Geo
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2551
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:22 am
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Joe Mello wrote: | Aside from the standard "contracts and rights can be weird sometimes," I think we're dealing with the two facts that anime has never been bigger and anime in the US has never been more monopolized. Yes, there are multiple streaming options for anime, but the ones that the market associate with anime are Crunchyroll and HIDIVE and they are not on the same level as each other. |
And, really, it's not much better on the home video side of things, either. Crunchyroll only with its most recent solicitation is seemingly starting to bump up how many releases it puts out in a month, seemingly half of Sentai's new releases tend to be repackages of stuff previously released in the past (while not releasing numerous titles that it's simulcasted or streamed, in general), and beyond them (in North America, at least) there's really just Discotek, Media Blasters, GKids, & Anime Limited (via Shout Factory), with each one putting out fewer overall releases than the one before it, for the most part.
At this point, it's essentially come down to "Crunchyroll handles most of the simulcasts, while Discotek handles most of the home video market", and the latter is most definitely not by intention on Discotek's part.
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Dr. Wily
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 265
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 12:01 pm
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kgw wrote: | I have a better question: what if the anime you like is licensed "worldwide" by a platform who doesn't think the world exists beyond the US?
For example, Mission Yozakura Family is in Disney+… in some countries, apparently. |
Well that one's a lot easier these days, just get a VPN (of which there are dozens, like half the Youtube videos I watch have sponsor plugs for some VPN service or another) and make it say you're from the company where it is streaming. I mean, you'll still have to have the streaming service in question plus the VPN so it's pricey, but it's the best legal option you've got since physical releases are basically dead nowadays.
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Nipasu
Joined: 11 Aug 2023
Posts: 78
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:41 pm
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nutmegknight wrote: | licensors not wanting to license a kids anime in subs given that the target audience may not be old enough to read subs and some of these anime are meant to sell toys and they may not want to make toys and release an anime |
Interesting that this has become the norm nowadays. Pretty Cure, The Pretty Series and even Chibi Maruko Chan (which has some dubbed episodes on YouTube) are/were given subbed simulcasts with no dubs or merch.
In fact Pretty Cure didn't receive any Western merch until Tokullectibles began selling Delicious Party toys (the pre-orders appeared tow months before DP premiered/was licensed).
I was also sad to see that AiPri wasn't licensed. Nice that PriMagi was at least given a physicals release, but I wish Aipri could have also bene picked up by someone, somewhere (even just in France would be good enough).
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louis6578
Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1862
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:04 pm
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Anime News Network doesn't like it when you guys do the P-word.
I just watch my anime that isn't simulcasted the same way I watch 70s and 80s anime that Discotek never picked up. The same way I watch anime whose licenses expired. The same way I watch anime that never got an official English release but were subtitled by fans for free.
Whatever this mysterious method is, I'll never tell, but considering that my house is overflowing with blu-rays and DVDs of everything I can officially get, I don't feel too bad when I consume media that isn't available otherwise this way. The instant they become available, I buy them too.
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Nipasu
Joined: 11 Aug 2023
Posts: 78
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 5:56 pm
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Quote: | Those English logos came from Toei Japan and were also used in other countries who had the series like Italy when they had their dub airing on TV pre-Glitter Force. |
I think Italy used a different logo for Fresh Pretty Cure?
And why woudl Toei continue making English logos (and translating names) well after Europe stopped licensing content? Even when GF was a thing, they still kept making English logos.
Quote: | Saban licensed Smile and Doki Doki as a package deal of 50 episodes hence why they skipped and combined half of Doki Doki because they could only dub 50 episodes total of both shows. |
But GF had 40 episodes, so was Doki Doki supposed to have just ten? The math isn't adding up.
Quote: | Multiple companies tried to release Sailor Stars sub only like Pioneer and ADV but Toei wouldn't let anyone have it It's well known among the anime industry that Sailor Stars was highly sought after back in the original run of the show so it's certainly not because of a lack of interest from the NA side that it didn't happen. |
Wasn't it given a subbed release? I remember seeing Stars with yellow subs, but I don't know if it was a legit release or not.
And if true, why bar Stars from the English market when other countries were allowed to dub it?
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gsilver
Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 618
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:37 pm
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While I'd like to post a snarky "alternate means" post that pretends that only those 'in the know' know what I'm talking about while actually being completely obvious to everyone, my anime watching these days is so limited that I barely watch anything, even if I'd very much like to still watch anime like I used to.
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Glordit
Joined: 11 Sep 2020
Posts: 471
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:21 am
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Dr. Wily wrote: |
kgw wrote: | I have a better question: what if the anime you like is licensed "worldwide" by a platform who doesn't think the world exists beyond the US?
For example, Mission Yozakura Family is in Disney+… in some countries, apparently. |
Well that one's a lot easier these days, just get a VPN (of which there are dozens, like half the Youtube videos I watch have sponsor plugs for some VPN service or another) and make it say you're from the company where it is streaming. I mean, you'll still have to have the streaming service in question plus the VPN so it's pricey, but it's the best legal option you've got since physical releases are basically dead nowadays. |
Some services are getting smart these days and can easily block VPN access. Additionally, some streaming services will set a "home" location and if you log in via an IP address outside of that, they'll think your are password sharing.
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NJ_
Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 3010
Location: Wallington, NJ
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 3:57 am
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Nipasu wrote: | Wasn't it given a subbed release? I remember seeing Stars with yellow subs, but I don't know if it was a legit release or not. |
That was from a old fansub from back in the 90s. I know because that's how I first watched Stars back in 2007.
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14766
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 5:29 am
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Murder, She wrote: |
But needing to sus out decent subs and then torrent them (something I have on good authority a lot of the younger fans these days aren't as practiced in) |
"BitTorrent is No Longer the ‘King’ of Upstream Internet Traffic"
Quote: | Back in 2004, in the pre-Web 2.0 era, research indicated that BitTorrent was responsible for an impressive 35% of all Internet traffic. At the time, file-sharing via peer-to-peer networks was the main traffic driver as no other services consumed large amounts of bandwidth.
Video Streaming Killed the Torrent Star
Fast-forward two decades and these statistics are ancient history. With the growth of video streaming, including services such as YouTube, Netflix, and TikTok, file-sharing traffic is nothing more than a drop in today’s data pool.
Even among pirates, file-sharing is no longer as relevant as it once was. Most pirate sites today are streaming-based and BitTorrent lost pretty much all of its ‘market share’ there too. |
Kadmos1 wrote: |
Well, they also have Hulu, Disney+, and Netflix for the American audiences in terms of the official big platforms. However, you are correct market association with CR and HIDIVE. |
"Most Popular U.S. Anime Streaming Services Surprises in Massive New Poll"
Quote: | The data shows that for Gen Z and Millennials, who both by far made up the majority of anime viewers, Crunchyroll came in fourth behind Amazon Prime Video and Hulu. As Crunchyroll is one of the few dedicated anime streaming services on the list, it suggests that the influence of other forms of media, such as live-action, plays a huge factor in where people watch their anime. As Polygon also reveals, when limited to specifically Gen Z viewing habits, Crunchyroll rose to second (58%) behind Netflix (76%). |
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Glordit
Joined: 11 Sep 2020
Posts: 471
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:59 am
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enurtsol wrote: |
Murder, She wrote: |
But needing to sus out decent subs and then torrent them (something I have on good authority a lot of the younger fans these days aren't as practiced in) |
"BitTorrent is No Longer the ‘King’ of Upstream Internet Traffic"
Quote: | Back in 2004, in the pre-Web 2.0 era, research indicated that BitTorrent was responsible for an impressive 35% of all Internet traffic. At the time, file-sharing via peer-to-peer networks was the main traffic driver as no other services consumed large amounts of bandwidth.
Video Streaming Killed the Torrent Star
Fast-forward two decades and these statistics are ancient history. With the growth of video streaming, including services such as YouTube, Netflix, and TikTok, file-sharing traffic is nothing more than a drop in today’s data pool.
Even among pirates, file-sharing is no longer as relevant as it once was. Most pirate sites today are streaming-based and BitTorrent lost pretty much all of its ‘market share’ there too. |
Kadmos1 wrote: |
Well, they also have Hulu, Disney+, and Netflix for the American audiences in terms of the official big platforms. However, you are correct market association with CR and HIDIVE. |
"Most Popular U.S. Anime Streaming Services Surprises in Massive New Poll"
Quote: | The data shows that for Gen Z and Millennials, who both by far made up the majority of anime viewers, Crunchyroll came in fourth behind Amazon Prime Video and Hulu. As Crunchyroll is one of the few dedicated anime streaming services on the list, it suggests that the influence of other forms of media, such as live-action, plays a huge factor in where people watch their anime. As Polygon also reveals, when limited to specifically Gen Z viewing habits, Crunchyroll rose to second (58%) behind Netflix (76%). |
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You can actually get CR through prime now I believe, which would give rise even more viewers. Though from what I have heard it's easier to just keep it separate to avoid headaches.
Quote: | Fernandez surveyed over 4,000 Americans |
Would be interesting to see a global survey, or at least ones based on other parts of the world.
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Megumi Chisato
Joined: 04 Aug 2021
Posts: 38
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:41 pm
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I see the younger generation moving away from torrenting and embracing streaming (even for pirating) as just a part of the trend of people not caring about owning anything anymore. People seem more than happy to have digital content be nothing more than transient experiences, something that you have to pay for the privilege of accessing rather than owning (like physical media or downloaded files). Of course, companies are more than happy to turn everything into a subscription service to get that sweet steady income stream.
Maybe it's because I'm an old fogey, but I just can't bear the thought of not being able to own my favorite media and being beholden to a service to access them.
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Cardcaptor Takato
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4842
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:47 pm
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Nipasu wrote: |
Wasn't it given a subbed release? I remember seeing Stars with yellow subs, but I don't know if it was a legit release or not.
And if true, why bar Stars from the English market when other countries were allowed to dub it? |
The subbed release of Sailor Moon only went up to the end of SuperS The only subbed releases of Sailor Stars were fansubs and old bootleg releases until the recent Viz release. No official reason was ever given but I presume it's probably Toei was demanding more money for Sailor Stars than US companies were willing to put up for it or possibly Naoko put her foot down and said no as this was also around the time Naoko was gaining more control over her franchise and then there was the global license freeze after PGSM came out.
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camseyeview140
Joined: 26 Jan 2021
Posts: 211
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:26 pm
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I do find it funny how CR and other services are like "yeah this charming looking rock band girl anime doesn't look appealing despite the popularity of Bocchi the Rock, but those 12 stupidly mediocre isekai slopfests are absolutely worth it since fans don't know any better are. yeah maybe 4 of the 12 are good, but we don't care."
it's just a fascinating thing of how all of this licensing and distribution work.
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