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This Week in Anime - Are This Season's Isekai Anime Any Good?


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Dr. Wily



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 283
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 11:51 am Reply with quote
Hal14 wrote:
Minos_Kurumada wrote:


Anyway, I am of the opinion that iseka its on its last legs and its going to be replaced with the "spelled from the hero's party" genera.


Even the "kicked out of the hero's party" stories are usually confused with isekai*. How often in the announcement articles for these are the second or third posts explaining that "this is not an isekai". Even here it's happening.
Currently the fantasy anime genre could be divided into: isekai vs. non-isekai, and even the non-isekai get confused for isekai. This stuff isn't going away anytime soon.

*Several actual isekai like Shield hero, Arifureta, Wordsmith, even Wrong way to use Healing magic, all have elements of "kicked out of the hero's party".


I think the reason people conflate the "kicked out of" sub-genre of fantasy with isekai is that it shares a lot of the unfortunate same tropes, like it always being set in a fantasy world that looks a whole lot like an RPG, and the main character (despite being kicked out of a party) turning out to be actually super skilled at stuff, or even at one particular thing that just so conveniently turns out to be incredibly useful if you use it right. Unfortunately isekai as a genre has basically become synonymous with "generic protagonist who is way too OP in a fantasy world".

Like this article does, to go back to the granddaddy of isekai... well, not of all isekai, but a lot of the modern kind of fantasy video game isekai that people complain about, one of the big compliments I'll give Sword Art Online (season 1) in retrospect is that Kirito is OP, but it's not just because he's a gamer and knows gamer skillz, but that he's been beta testing SAO itself and knows a lot of how that particular game functions (and because the anime has some unfortunate time skips where he levels up a bunch off screen between episodes). Too many modern isekai just go the route of "well, you know video games in general, right? Well what if your stats were busted as hell from the minute you popped into your new world, wouldn't that be cool?"
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redvelvetdoll



Joined: 16 Feb 2022
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:05 pm Reply with quote
Nothing is more heartbreaking than being an regular English dub watcher and so many of the seasonals picked to get a dub (especially same day!!!) are the isekai. At least do all the villainess ones!!! But no....
I was really praying for Black Butler to get the same day English dub treatment but I guess I'm just lucky that they are producing one at all
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 674
Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Dr. Wily wrote:


Like this article does, to go back to the granddaddy of isekai... well, not of all isekai, but a lot of the modern kind of fantasy video game isekai that people complain about, one of the big compliments I'll give Sword Art Online (season 1) in retrospect is that Kirito is OP, but it's not just because he's a gamer and knows gamer skillz, but that he's been beta testing SAO itself and knows a lot of how that particular game functions (and because the anime has some unfortunate time skips where he levels up a bunch off screen between episodes). Too many modern isekai just go the route of "well, you know video games, right? Well what if your stats were busted as hell from the minute you popped into your new world, wouldn't that be cool?"


Plenty of isekai try to duplicate the part I bolded, to mixed results. That's why you get past life stories where they were very talented/ possess niche knowledge others in their new life lack. Even Villainess stories like 7th time loop do that w/out game elements. Regardless of why or how the MC is special; the MC being special is there in most isekai. Which is fine on paper, most shows in general are like that. The problem is when they have nothing to offer besides the main gimmick/the MC's specialness.

Also you can rephrase arguably any characters OPness to sound less bad than it is. Even going as far as to claim it's because the show is a parody; a very dubious claim that does not protect a show from critique but arguably invites more critique.
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Ermat_46



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 726
Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:11 pm Reply with quote
Why not just use the umbrella term "JRPG fantasy" instead of isekai. When people criticize your typical modern fantasy anime, its those that have stat screens, voice prompts, skills, levels, half-assed world building with typical monsters like slimes, goblin, orc, etc. All of those can be seen on your typical RPG game.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18212
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:19 pm Reply with quote
Have watched at least two episodes of every isekai or isekai-like series airing this season (except The New Gate, whose second episode hasn't aired yet), and the non-sequel/continuation offerings this season aren't exciting me much. The two most watchable ones so far for me are Aristocrat (the "I'm not the strongest but I'm going to surround myself with strong people" angle seems a bit fresher) and Salad Bowl (partly because reverse-isekai is rarer and partly because the way the girls are fitting into the modern world in their own ways is amusing). 7th Prince doesn't lean hard enough into its "this is so ridiculous it's self-parody" aspect; it seems to want to do that but also be a mainstream power fantasy, too.

But hey, not every season can have a Reborn as a Vending Machine, so. . . Wink

Blanchimont wrote:
Quote:
And the gag where he changes his character model to the fem settings is also playing around with video game mechanics and makes me hopeful that the harem elements of this isekai won't be as painfully vanilla and heteronormative as most of its contemporaries.

I've said it before in the preview thread, but Chillin' isn't a harem.

I remember you saying that before, and that's reassuring, but I think we can forgive people assuming otherwise based on the first two episodes not pointing in any other direction.
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Jabootu



Joined: 17 Jan 2024
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:22 pm Reply with quote
Minos_Kurumada did write:

Quote:
I always found hilarious how the best isekai are the ones that either parody the genera or reject every trope an isekai should have.


How so? You mention Konasuba, and that's one. I wouldn't say Re:Zero rejects every trope by any means, but enough, I guess, that it might fall into what you're talking about.

However, Mushoku Tensei is about as bog standard of an Isekai as there is (mostly because it's been ripped-off so much) and it's arguably the greatest isekai anime ever. There are many superior isekai that play around at the edges with standard plot devices, such as Slime (he's a monster!) or Overlord (he's the villain!) or Ascendance of a Bookworm, but I would hardly say any of those "reject every trope an isekai should have." Even The Eminence in Shadow, while partly a parody of isekai tropes (much moreso than Konasuba) is equally as much a celebration of those tropes as well. Do you have any other examples?
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 674
Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:27 pm Reply with quote
Ermat_46 wrote:
Why not just use the umbrella term "JRPG fantasy" instead of isekai. When people criticize your typical modern fantasy anime, its those that have stat screens, voice prompts, skills, levels, half-assed world building with typical monsters like slimes, goblin, orc, etc. All of those can be seen on your typical RPG game.


There is actually a term for that already: LitRPG, which is when a setting possesses game-like elements (stat screens) w/out being a game. There is also GameLit, which is when they are in a game. For instance, Jumanji and Ready Player One are GameLit.
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Jabootu



Joined: 17 Jan 2024
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:49 pm Reply with quote
Quoth Hal14:

Quote:
There is also GameLit, which is when they are in a game. For instance, Jumanji and Ready Player One are GameLit.


Or Bofuri or Shangri-La Frontier.
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bassgs435



Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:22 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
I remember you saying that before, and that's reassuring, but I think we can forgive people assuming otherwise based on the first two episodes not pointing in any other direction.

Have you seen how Fenrys acts? It won't be a harem, because she won't let it become one and this message is clear even to the knight girls everyone assumes will be part of a "harem"
This is set up as a monogamous romance beetween her and Flio. Even the OP and ED reinforce this. Especially the OP being a full on love song by Rie Kugimiya in character as Fenris
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Sasuke149



Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:29 pm Reply with quote
It's gotten to the point where once I identify an anime as isekai (often just by a quick glance at the poster art), it promptly gets removed from my watchlist for that season. Only a very very small number of anime manage to make it through this screening process, perhaps two or three a year at most. And those are typically the ones I perceive as not primarily aimed at a male audience.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 4866
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:34 pm Reply with quote
redvelvetdoll wrote:

I was really praying for Black Butler to get the same day English dub treatment but I guess I'm just lucky that they are producing one at all
Same day dubs have nothing to do with the show's popularity. They only happen because the production is ether already complete or far enough ahead of schedule that they can realistically dub a show that fast.
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Minos_Kurumada



Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 1032
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Jabootu wrote:
Minos_Kurumada did write:

Quote:
I always found hilarious how the best isekai are the ones that either parody the genera or reject every trope an isekai should have.


How so? You mention Konasuba, and that's one. I wouldn't say Re:Zero rejects every trope by any means, but enough, I guess, that it might fall into what you're talking about.

However, Mushoku Tensei is about as bog standard of an Isekai as there is (mostly because it's been ripped-off so much) and it's arguably the greatest isekai anime ever. There are many superior isekai that play around at the edges with standard plot devices, such as Slime (he's a monster!) or Overlord (he's the villain!) or Ascendance of a Bookworm, but I would hardly say any of those "reject every trope an isekai should have." Even The Eminence in Shadow, while partly a parody of isekai tropes (much moreso than Konasuba) is equally as much a celebration of those tropes as well. Do you have any other examples?


Isekai fantasies its based in the power fantasy of a world and situation you would like to find yourself into: Control of your life and surroundings with little to no effort with minimum consequences.

Either it being OP just for being born or having 5 brides who fell for you because you called them cute, or being a farmer but with broken abilities that allows you to skip the actual farming and a revolving door in your room for women because you are the only man in 100km radius or being a political leader because you read The Prince, you wanna be that.

You wanna be in Rimoru's world and have his powers, you wanna have Rudy's life and MT critics say all the time how he faces no proper conquenses for everything he does, weird people wanna be Ainz ... you don't wanna be in Kasuma's nor in Subaru's place nor you would want their powers.

You also don't wanna be in Tanya's place, trying to survive magical WWI while fighting God and yeah, you don't wanna be Main: half dead all the time while trying to avoid ending as the plaything of some rich ugly bastard.

Any isekai that grants you a harder life than the one you had before or makes you tell yourself "I want a refund" then goes against the basic trope of the genre.

PD: My original declaration of "reject every trope" was an hyperbole and I made a mistake in doing it.
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Hal14



Joined: 01 Apr 2018
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Location: Heart of africa
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:01 pm Reply with quote
Minos_Kurumada wrote:

Any isekai that grants you a harder life than the one you had before or makes you tell yourself "I want a refund" then goes against the basic trope of the genre.
.


So where does SAO fall under this definition? It's a power fantasy but people are also trapped in the game and some even commit suicide out of despair.

I would also argue against some you listed. Main (from Ascendance of bookworm) is constantly pleased with her situation. There are threats and hardships but I bet if she was asked she'd say her new life is both better and worse in some regards. Meanwhile, what about Naofumi (Shield hero)? Is his life better or worse off, since being transported?

Personally, your definition reminds me of when people argue: "This character isn't OP because he struggled that one time!" or "he struggled two times!" Struggles, hardship and consequences are kind of subjective.
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Jabootu



Joined: 17 Jan 2024
Posts: 85
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Milos:

I don't want to quote your entire thoughtful reply, so let me say overall thank you for clarifying your terms. I certainly agree that the major element of a lot of the more popular isekais (although not nearly as many among the still popular but better ones) is that they are self-insert power fantasies. However, I personally would say that while a popular sub-genre, it's not in fact the major defining trait of isekais in general.

I'll go instead with the broader (and self-evident) "finding yourself in another world" trope. Certainly being fundamentally a power fantasy is true of a lot of them, but not so much that I'd say offering a non-insert premise like Overlord or Tanya or Re:Zero or Mushoku Tensei marks them as a rejection of isekai's central trope. John Carter falls into the power fantasy thing, but I'm not sure Wizard of Oz or Alice in Wonderland does, and those are just as much isekais as Carter's adventures are.

People want Rudy's life? That's a new one on me. Because a lot of his dual lives, even the second one, sucks. And the idea that Rudy suffers no consequences from his actions is patently ridiculous. The whole story revolves around a character spending an entire second lifetime learning from mistakes and overcoming personal trauma to become a better person. I'd say most of the critics you cite are just people who don't like the show but feel the need to justify it instead of saying, "Yeah, it's not my bag." Sadly, that's a pretty regular thing.

Kudos especially to your admission that you were being a bit hyperbolic in one instance. We're all prone to that sort of thing but for some reason a lot of people feel unable to admit it and go to ridiculous extremes to defend a position that they don't even 100% believe in.
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FilthyCasual



Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2210
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:52 pm Reply with quote
Obligatory reminder that SAO is VRMMO, not isekai, and anyone who believes otherwise will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.
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