Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - Are This Season's Isekai Anime Any Good?
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18212 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Based on limited familiarity with PriPara, I would say it doesn't. It's more in line with a Shangri-La Frontier or the movie Belle, where people are doing stuff in a virtual world. Not familiar at all with AiPri.
Really think you're selling short the struggle Rudy goes through, as it's on another level from the true bottomfeeder series of the genre. Not saying his characterization is any sort of masterpiece of writing, or that there aren't some questionable narrative choices in places, but I still find him interesting as a deeply flawed character who's learned some lessons but still has a long ways to go on other fronts. He feels more true-to-life than a lot of anime protagonists do. (Sylphie, OTOH, feels much more like a pure wish fulfillment character.) |
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Essedess
Posts: 52 |
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Key, I think the problem is that a lot of people think that a good character has to also be a good person. Yeah, Rudy is getting much better, but he's still kind of a scumbag at times. That's actually WHY I find him interesting. But many people can't accept a main character that's not some sort of paragon, I guess, being called "good". Sad for them.
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Eilavel
Posts: 39 |
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I'm not actually entirely disagreeing with this viewpoint; certainly, within the genre he's not the most unreal protagonist. I agreed he overcomes the social and self-esteem problems he has, and thats more than most isekai can say. I'm not denying that he has any journey. But he doesn't overcome being a gross and awful person, nor does he face consequences for those actions. he's on a journey to be the wish fulfillment fantasy protagonist, and its his internal problems that would prevent him living that life he overcomes; the behavior thats most objectionable in Rudy isn't a problem for this or for the series, and so isn't addressed, nor does it have any negative results for Rudy. A character study that totally ignores serious sex crimes by the character, isn't one I'm going to be sold on. Its because it has other OK elements this attracts more perpetual debate than say redo of healer, where everyone just agrees its "problematic" and takes or leaves it as is.
I don't mind a scumbag being the main character. Nor does a good person need to be flawless. But a redemption narrative that doesn't address constant sex crimes isn't delivering redemption as far as I'm concerned, and thats the narrative MT fans tell me I'm getting. Nor can you maintain a sense of realism around a character when kidnappings, attempted rapes ect are comically easily forgiven. Rudy only faces social criticism when he's right; for things he does wrong, nothing! His internal journey is better constructed- but as above- only covers limited parts of his character. Its got a self-improvement narrative and a wish fulfillment narrative that ignores a lot of creepy sex stuff. I'm aware critics often ignore the former, which I've tried diligently to avoid; on the other hand, defenders often act as if the former's presence somehow means the latter isn't happening. Anyway, I'll leave it there from me because I'm sure the forum doesn't need more endless MT threads and I've made my point sufficiently. Last edited by Eilavel on Thu Apr 18, 2024 10:02 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2264 Location: Online Terminal |
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A compelling story is one where the storyteller feels strongly about their point of view. If these isekai writers are really just trying to tick boxes as the columnists implied at the end, then they have no hope of making anything other than empty, forgettable calories.
Keep Gettin' Them Checks, I guess, but do something you actually care about. |
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Chipp12
Posts: 303 |
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What exactly makes him the best? He has exactly one trait: being madly in love with magic and magic related stuff. That's it. I'm also enjoying this title but I definitely don't think that he's super deep or unique in any way. |
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medicinodestiny
Posts: 30 |
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I think it takes a very deep-seated level of cynicism for people to be so sure that these authors don't enjoy the stuff they're writing. Especially for series that are massively popular and clearly have a lot of love and praise among the anime fandom. I very much doubt these people hate their jobs and would put forth the more likely alternative that they're creating series they genuinely do enjoy and want to make and in turn get rewarded by the fandom for. I really do think some people would be a lot healthier and a lot happier to just admit they might no longer be the target demographic or audience for anime anymore. And their choices are either to age gracefully and adapt to the times or simply bow out and find something else. Choosing to instead plant their feet in the ground and insisting there's some sort of conspiracy or problem in the industry that only they have the clairvoyance to see doesn't sound like a great way to live life. |
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1010 |
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my take on this is that flawed characters are not interesting unless those flaws are directly confronted with or addressed in some way in-story. But it doesn't, because Mushoku Tensei simply does not believe that the most egregious parts of his personality are actual flaws, certainly not ones worth addressing. And that's just bad writing no matter how you slice it, unless your intent all along was just pure wish fulfillment and not anything deeper than that. and frankly i do believe that the series would be better if it was much more honest about itself |
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Dayraven
Posts: 176 |
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So, more traits than the average isekai protagonist, you say? |
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 514 Location: Poland |
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I don't think it's about checks at all. Remember that Narou's name transalte to "Let's become a novelist", it's basically website for any aspiring writers, and as such, had the same problem every fanfiction site has - a lot of those wannabe writers are horrible at writing, and even successful repeating ones often don't learn to write any better, since why would they if they're successful already? Mary Sue was first coined as a lesson to fanfiction writers on what to avoid, since those writers tends to write self-insert wish-fulfillment MCs, and of course isekai is full of Gary Stu MCs as well, for the same reason. They write what they like and what they see people like, and what they like are usually other, already popular Narou stories, and what readers like are also trending Narou stories, so they keep copying them because they don't know how to write better.
Sorry, that's nonsense. I got in anime by watching Ghibli movies, Cowboy Bebop, Lain, Ergo Prosy, Princess Tutu and Madoka, and there are still anime made in similar way. We have Laid Back Camp, Sound Euphorium, and in recent seasons Frieren, Apothecary Diaries (Narou title that's actually good), Dangers in my Heart, Spy x Family. Just because there are like plus minus 5 isekai titles each season of 40-50 anime, it doesn't mean anime is suddenly no longer for us. Before isekai there was battle harem fad - I remember then Chivalry of Failed Knight and one other title both had MC conflict with redhead tsundere in first episode preview guide - yet it didn't mean people were no longer audience for anime then, and it doesn't mean that now. Cheap anime is cheap, so lots of bad but somewhat popular novels get adapted into bad anime, since that's easy money, that doesn't stop better anime from existing. Hollywood is and always was full of bad writing too, just usually on higher level since they probably can't save on budget on the level of cheap 3DCG anime. |
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Jabootu
Posts: 85 |
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Eilavel:
This is why you shouldn't talk about a show you haven't watched. The answer to most of those is yes. When he sees someone being kidnapped, he takes action (and risks his life) to free that person. And overcoming "perverse sexual desires"? He sure does. Maybe he backslides later, but he's clearly in a committed, very positive sexual relationship with another consenting adult right now. Good for him, and good for Sylphy. Even slaving he doesn't "engage" in (it's not like he runs slaves), although he does buy a slave, whose life is incredibly better as a result. Julie, after all, becomes basically the younger sister of a Prince, as we are explicitly told. She is well cared for, doted upon and clearly happy. That sort of thing theoretically isn't supposed to happen--good things shouldn't happen because of social evils--but given the world presented (and our own history, as with Rome), there were times when enslaved individuals were better off than, say, serfs or scrabble farmers. One thing we often hear anime heroes and heroines say is that they are primarily concerned with saving the people in front of them. Rudy does that with Julie, even when he respects her enough to offer her death if she prefers that. That's act of pure empathy on his part, not one of malice. Rudy's crippling social anxiety and isolation--he tries to kill himself at least once in the story--certainly represent "lasting consequences". He's been killed by a god, lost his family, been teleported to a hostile land, been falsely accused and incarcerated (by people who he then turns around to save)...well, he hardly goes through life unscathed. Can I also point out that although I constantly see Rudy attacked on forums like this as a pig and a piece of filth (which is certainly fair), people seldom point out that he's also at the same time in many ways a great guy. He's brave, intelligent, emphatic, loyal, will work his ass off and risk his own life to save others, including Sara and Ruijerd, has a great deal of power but seldom bullies others. There's a reason so many people in the show look up to and love Rudy, and it's not because they are written poorly. It's because they are responding to the good parts of his nature (and often punishing him for the bad ones). I get that some people like tidy, simple "and then he died" moral fables. Or stories where a character has a sudden epiphany and then just becomes a better person all at once. This is not one of those stories. Rudy will (as I understand it) eventually grow old and die as the story progresses, and I'm sure he'll still have flaws, if lessor ones, when he does so. However, for those seeking more complex stories about realistically flawed human beings, MT presents more meat than nearly any other artistic work out there I can think of. Nobody's telling you to watch it or like it, but you can get off your high horse that others do. Yeah, no we aren't invoking Martin Luther King into this off-topic discussion. -LL |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23813 |
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Ah yes... MT: the gift that just keeps on giving.
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 2948 Location: Email for assistance only |
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MT is barely relevant to this column; please talk about literally anything else.
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Jabootu
Posts: 85 |
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Moderator:
Understood. |
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andramus
 Posts: 170 |
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I'm not trying to nit-pick because this is a genuine question on my part but is Mushoku Tensei barely relevant? The topic of this column is "Are This Season's Isekai Anime Any Good?" which from my perspective invites debate about what makes an isekai good. Comparing this season's isekai to past season's isekai and other anime for that matter seems to be a natural extension of such a debate. People bring up examples of what they think are good and bad isekai and the debate flows from there. I'm just speaking from my own perspective but it doesn't feel like a case of introducing a topic into the discussion from completely out of left field. |
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pip25
Posts: 156 |
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The problems start when any/all isekai discussions devolve into debates about MT. |
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