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Forum - View topicANNCast - Kiznaiver Fight
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DmonHiro
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Does this contain spoiler for the last episodes of Kiznaiver? Cause I haven't seen those yet.
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Themaster20000
 Posts: 863 |
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No matter how pretty your show looks,it lives and dies by the script. That Kizavier in a nutshell. I look forward to the next show from the director who is obviously very talented. The man has a great eye for detail,and knows how to frame and compose shots. Hopefully he's given a better material to work with on his next project.
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5431 Location: Iscandar |
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Very enjoyable and informative episode.
I pretty much agree with everything Jacob says about Kabaneri and Re:Zero. Thank you for the discussion on Kiznaiver; I finally get how the writing is being very mean-spirited and judgmental. I also had higher hopes for Kiznaiver for about its first 7-8 episodes, but I am gradually losing faith in it.
To me they did not spoil anything from the latest episodes. They made some broad comments but not anything specific. Also, Zac did most of the talking on it, and he has only watched the first 10 episodes. |
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DmonHiro
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Sweet! I can listen to the podcast. Thank you. Also, guys... watch Kiznaiver. It's good and even a little fresh. |
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Wingbeats
 Posts: 272 Location: Boise, Idaho |
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Great show and very informative discussion. I definitely agree with everything being said about Kiznaiver here - but I'm still watching it, because goddamn if the visuals aren't frikkin' GORGEOUS. I love looking at it, at least, so I'm sticking with it to the end!
But man, just imagine if this was in a different writer's hands....after this season, I have become very soured on Okada. I mean, I was fairly neutral about her writing and ideas before, but now, with Kiznaiver and Lost Village? Ugggh....I am not enjoying these experiences.... |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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I have to wonder about Mari Okada. Last season she had Gundam which was overall pretty good. It sure had some dubious moments and character writing, but it was in general a decent show. What happened from one season to another that made her helm not one but two terrible shows?
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stilldemented
 Posts: 232 |
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Jacob hit the nail on the head for the rise in Re:Zero's popularity.
The impression that I keep getting from fans is that the web novel garnered its favor by intentionally pretending to be like every other run-of-the-mill fantasy self-insert fiction, then, once the author had his audience, cut all those strings to tell a more engaging tale. I've been fascinated at how the show introduces new characters as par archetypes in stereotypical fashion, then fleshes them out into organic characters with clear motivations driving their actions. I stayed with the show, because it felt different than most isekai shows. Ever get that feeling that there's more to a show than it wants to reveal? It's that sense of intrigue that keeps it captivating. Although the pacing is slow, I feel that might be what makes the emotional sincerity resonate and taking things at a faster pace would lessen the impact. It's a give and take sort of hitch. The show still has its moments where the writing degenerates into world building through telling rather than showing, but I find it working in the shows favor because of that ever looming sense of dread. The audience ends up wanting to learn as much about the world as Subaru as he struggles to find any sort of intel that might aid him in his survival. We don't really want him to die anymore than he does. Re:Zero has all the earmarks of a well-made story. An over-arching plot. Every answer brings more questions. Solid characterization. A strong recurring theme. Its caveat is that it takes its time beating around the bush, which works to the show's detriment if one isn't already invested. So I also agree that it's a very love it or hate it show.  .
But at the very least, it has proven so far to be a show that has planned itself out well in advance. And I find that to also be what has attracted broader attention toward the show. So there's some more general thoughts to throw out there in an attempt to puzzle out why I find the show popular and endearing to me and my fellow fans. 
Last edited by stilldemented on Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Thacker
Posts: 1006 |
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Agreed. My personal bias is that as a show planned out to be 26 episodes from the start (and not multiple 13 episode cours if successful), it has the room to do that. But maybe that's my "everything was better in the 80s and 90s" bias showing. I sort of feel like when shows starting cutting the filler episodes going from 26 to 13, a lot of them ended up cutting the character development that gave emotional impact. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
 Subscriber Posts: 3017 |
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She's a very uneven writer, that's nothing new. Additionally, just because she writes a show doesn't mean she has complete control over the script; if the director tells her "X is going to try to kill Y next episode", then it's her job to make that happen. Whether that level of control is good or bad entirely depends on how you view her style of character writing (personally, I think it works a lot better in more fantastical settings like AKB0048 and Wixoss than in shows with more tangential scifi elements like Kiznaiver). |
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invalidname
 Contributor Posts: 2450 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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Best and worst of the season feature next week? I wonder how many of the writers are going to pick Ace Attorney as their worst. Or maybe everyone just dropped it after week 1.
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LightYapper
 Posts: 131 Location: Somewhere on Earth |
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After almost reaching the conclusion for this season, I discovered that Kabaneri and Re Zero are polar opposites in their receptions in the beginning and by the end. Despite Kabaneri's relative strengths as an action series, it turned most viewers off with its increasingly stupid and cliched writing.
In comparison, Re Zero managed to bring back the fans' trust and confidence in the show, especially in the storytelling aspects. Guess this season also reinforces the point that having a great ending is better than having a mind-blowing premise, since Re Zero pretty much dictated the season.
If you are talking about which shows would be picked as the worst of the season, Big Order's still out there, and you certainly haven't forgotten other shows that don't get reviewed episodically like Cerberus and Hundred, have you? |
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3767 |
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I definitely think Big Order will a serious contender for worst of the season among the writers, provided they watched it of course. I totally deserves it though, as we haven't seen primo crap like that since Chaos Dragon. I haven't seen Cerberus beyond the first episode, so I can't comment aside from saying I forgot about it until now. Hundred on the other hand, while certainly not a good show, I can't really say it was outright bad. It was mostly just meh. Now some will certainly equate meh/mediocre with bad but I like to save that for special occasions like the aforementioned Big Order and Chaos Dragon. So I don't think we will see too much of Hundred, though to be honest probably because they didn't bother to watch it. On another note, while I don't have the numbers, I wonder if Re:zero's rise is purely from those who disliked it leaving. Looking at the first episode ratings alone, which even those who subsequently dropped it watched, it still got a 4.1, which is hardly a bad score. Now the scores did go up after that, so that effect probably contributed to it but we're talking a rise from 4.1 to mid 4's, which is not that dramatic. Contrary to Mr. Chapman's assertion that Re:zero started from the bottom and rocketed to the top, it started rank 10 out of 25, which is hardly the bottom. And looking at the number following the show on various list/rating sites, its following is comparable to every other well rated show this season, and even some critically well reviewed shows in prior seasons in the past year. While there are certainly people who hate it (a position I can understand and respect) if you look at the show's page on this site, the ratings don't bear out a love it or hate it opinion among at least the site's users. Almost all the ratings are positive and the number of ratings are comparable to most other shows airing this season. Is there likely an effect from people who dislike it dropping it and only those who like it remaining? Almost certainly. Is this effect more pronounced than in other shows this season? Not that I can tell. This leads me to believe that a significant amount of people, on this site and others, think that Re:zero is at least good, and not just a cult following. Now obviously someone on the site has the numbers and can say "Yeah, the number of ratings for Re:Zero is significantly less than other highly rated shows" and prove me wrong. I do think Re:Zero is a serious contender for best of the season. I'd ask what the writers think is better, but we'll have that answer soon enough. It's not to say that I think it is the clear cut winner. Merely one of the multiple shows that have a serious shot at it. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Of course, to suggest this is to assume that Super Lovers will be excluded from the feature by means of a technicality. |
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Alabaster Spectrum
Posts: 528 |
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I would say this is another case of Aniplex original writing strikes again but in this case I think it really is just a matter of Okada (who is far from the only heavily promoted name that I feel just contributes absolutely nothing positive or fresh to this medium, just among the most unrelentingly prolific) since I hear that Mayoiga is even worse in terms of just the complete asshole unlikeable character syndrome that plagues far too many late night anime for me to watch much of it anymore lately. I don't really know what the deal is with producers and writers thinking this is the sort of thing average people want to see but it's clearly backfired in the cases of Kiznaiver and Kumamiko with it's curiously mean spirited ending that is suffering massive backlash in Japan. Producers might really want to consider not doing this sort of stuff anymore if they have any remaining common sense and might even want to consider easing up on Mari Okada in the absence of Tatsuyuki Nagai already but I just doubt it happens. Too few prolific mass production writers for an industry that is going the mass production route still and needs all the script writing pluggers it can get. One thing I find fascinating by the way is the staggering difference from the heavily promoted and marketed Kiznaiver and the relatively innoucous sleeper that is Space Patrol Luluco and how much better the latter seems to be doing. It's the first sign of any sort of stirring or maybe even protest buying/boycotting of certain kinds of titles and ideas I've seen out of a TV anime season in a while and also the first sign that more people are starting to wake up to the kind of undeniable fact that things are going south fast in TV anime land, particularly when it comes to competent script writing and characters that are even tolerable let alone memorable. Hopefully this season can get the ball somewhat rolling on the demise of what I call "Late Night Anime asshole character syndrome" but I'm not holding my breath as long as the current industries mainstay producers and writers get to call the shots since they seem to remain steadfastly convinced that Kiznaiver type casts and plots and Kumamiko Finales are the kinds of things viewers really want to see the most and have just enough egocentrism, marketing power and whale supporter fans to keep these trends financially viable and going for a while yet. Again thanks for practically nothing lately anime industry and making progressively and more popular and heavily promoted shows that make me feel shittier for having watched them than I would have otherwise as well as waste the talents of those that do the best most effortful work for them which usually means either the director or character designers. |
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Tanteikingdomkey
 Posts: 2346 |
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I can understand how jacob and the others would feel that Honoka ending up spoiler[expressing feelings for a ] guy is a slap in the face. but I appreciate that the character is spoiler[Bi] Considering that all the attention and characters that the spoiler[L & G communities get] I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for us to a spoiler[Bi anime character ] outside of George KOIZUMI who was almost 10 years ago at this point. and yet we have quite a few cast of them every year in anime for the other two (maybe not always good ones but still) so it is so bad to have one in a different camp?
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